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Message
re: HIMYM VS FRIENDS
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:11 am to Freauxzen
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:11 am to Freauxzen
quote:
What happens is that when you try to move characters forward in jarring ways (Robin and Barney, The end, etc.) it has to be perfect or it doesn't work. As much as the show is titled, and focuses on, the progression from point A to point B, I'm not sure the characters really experience that.
I don't really think that the Barney and Robin deal was jarring until they ended up divorced because Barney reverted back to Barney. That was absolutely ridiculous and was done for the sole purpose of allowing Robin and Ted to get back together, which was a terrible way to end the show, too.
Up until the last season, I would argue that HIMYM was every bit as good as Friends. Each show had characters you cared about, even if the HIMYM characters were far less real, and the growth in each character was evident.
Then HIMYM pulled the rug out from under you and laughed in your face for thinking it was a show worth any shite at all before systematically tearing down all of the development the characters had experienced.
2
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:14 am to Baloo
quote:
Seinfeld is overrated as hell. And it has spawned a legion of shows that revel in being clever without actually telling jokes or bothering to be funny (yes, that's a slam on Arrested Development, too)
I wish I hadn't read this Baloo. I've always thought extremely highly of your posts but this is like being told santa isn't real. I don't think I can ever view your posts the same again.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:18 am to Baloo
quote:
And if we're going to ding HIMYM for caricatures.... holy crap. Seinfeld is one of the worst offenders in TV history for this.
I think seinfeld and HIMYM are two of the best sitcoms of all times....I aint dinging shite.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:22 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
I wish I hadn't read this Baloo. I've always thought extremely highly of your posts but this is like being told santa isn't real. I don't think I can ever view your posts the same again.
Sorry to disappoint. I don't like Mad Men either. But I've been dismayed by the recent trend in sitcoms to not tell jokes. And it's not like I don't like comedians who try to explore greater truth. I think Louie is brilliant, even when its not funny at all. But I feel he's exploring something more. Clever/awkward shows seem to delight in showing off how smart the writers room is, which is great (I like smart), but you can be smart and still be funny (Silicon Valley, for example).
But Seinfeld has always been a cartoon populated by unrealistic characters, which is fine (so is HIMYM to an extent), but then it uses the format to show how empty and mean cartoon characters are. I don't know, cynicism seems edgy and cool when you're younger, but as I get older, it just seems cheap and lazy. It's much harder to actually form a character and believe in things. Seinfeld's nihilism just is really unappealing to me (the show, not Jerry himself).
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:23 am to LoveThatMoney
quote:
don't really think that the Barney and Robin deal was jarring until they ended up divorced because Barney reverted back to Barney. That was absolutely ridiculous and was done for the sole purpose of allowing Robin and Ted to get back together, which was a terrible way to end the show, too.
This I absolutely agree with. The show put in years of work turning Barney into an actual person instead of just a cartoon character, only to revert him to a cartoon in the end. It made all of that work for naught. The biggest problem with the show's ending is what a disservice it did to Barney, who horribly regressed.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:33 am to Baloo
quote:
I've been dismayed by the recent trend in sitcoms to not tell jokes
That's their fault, not seinfeld's. I mean, Nsync and BSB were on top of the world a while and spawned counltess knockoff wannabes, but they themselves were at least pretty good (for the time I mean). Seinfeld is widely considered the best sitcom of all time, it shouldn't be to blame if copycats tried to replicate the formula and failed.
quote:
Clever/awkward shows seem to delight in showing off how smart the writers room is,
this is the 2nd time you've said this. How exactly did seinfeld think they were so smart, or were full of themselves (or however it was that you put it earlier)?
quote:
Seinfeld has always been a cartoon populated by unrealistic characters,
Couldn't disagree more. For starters, it's a sitcom. SOMETHING has to happen, or else it'd be just like a normal day in the life of you or me with someone sitting at a desk doing their job and nobody would watch. With that said, Seinfeld was awesome at taking everyday events that viewers have dealt with (trying to meet up in a theater, the annoying acquiantencne who tries to tag along, getting hassled by a car salesman, being more attracted to your so's roommate than them, and on and on and on and on) and making an episode out of it in a "normal" way, not in an over the top, unbelievable way. So I don't buy the cartoon part.
As for the characters, show me a sitcom that doesn't have exagerrated characters. Even still, Seinfeld for the most part had characters rooted in reality. Sure they may have been more "cruel" to an extent than Joe Everyman, but again it's a TV show. Jerry is just your normal everyday guy. Kramer is the friend that every group of friends ever has had, the crazy off the wall one that's pretty out there. Everyone knows a George that's cheap, petty, and lazy. Elaine has had pretty good jobs/careers and has trouble with men, sounds like a great deal of 30something career women who've never married. I'd say their characters are far more realistic than many other comedies on today.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:43 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
As for the characters, show me a sitcom that doesn't have exagerrated characters. Even still, Seinfeld for the most part had characters rooted in reality. Sure they may have been more "cruel" to an extent than Joe Everyman, but again it's a TV show. Jerry is just your normal everyday guy. Kramer is the friend that every group of friends ever has had, the crazy off the wall one that's pretty out there. Everyone knows a George that's cheap, petty, and lazy. Elaine has had pretty good jobs/careers and has trouble with men, sounds like a great deal of 30something career women who've never married. I'd say their characters are far more realistic than many other comedies on today.
With the exception of Kramer, I agree. Kramer is a cartoon. That's the whole point of the character. He is in no way grounded in reality. The rest of the characters are certainly realistic as I feel like that was sort of the point of the show - take real people and real situations and examine them in a way Jerry Seinfeld (and Larry David) does in his stand up routines. Add a dash of zany Kramer and, voila, you have a show.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:43 am to WalkingTurtles
quote:
Ted Mosby was perhaps one of the worst characters of all time
Well, I just didn't really find him all that relatable.
Also, I couldn't stand how he kept telling people that he was left at the altar. While I realize that it is probably the most efficient way of explaining what happened, actually getting left at the altar or stood up at the wedding would be way worse. I'm not sure if it was lazy writing or if Ted was supposed to have over embellished the story.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:43 am to Baloo
quote:well long time recovering alcoholics do fall off the wagon sometimes.
This I absolutely agree with. The show put in years of work turning Barney into an actual person instead of just a cartoon character, only to revert him to a cartoon in the end. It made all of that work for naught. The biggest problem with the show's ending is what a disservice it did to Barney, who horribly regressed.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:44 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
How exactly did seinfeld think they were so smart, or were full of themselves (or however it was that you put it earlier)?
Almost every episode was a gimmick. I mean, even the central conceit was to be a "show about nothing", and the show strived to never be ABOUT anything. Which could work if the characters were interesting, which I really don't feel they were. Kramer was cartoonish and without any real motivation to do the thing he does other than to create tension. George is a static character and Elaine started fairly interesting before falling into the show's central conceit that all of these people are awful, so she became just as awful and self-centered.
quote:
s for the characters, show me a sitcom that doesn't have exagerrated characters. Even still, Seinfeld for the most part had characters rooted in reality.
I get exaggerated, but Seinfeldian characters barely resembled human beings, particularly their side characters. Show you a show with somewhat believable characters? OK, Friends.
The characters on Friends can't just be reduced to the "crazy one" or the "lazy one". They actually resembled real-life human beings, and even characters who started as one note (cough) (Joey) (cough) grew into surprising depth. One of the biggest difference between the shows is that I actually CARED what happened to the Friends. They built a world in which you invested in the characters, and that actually enriched the comedy. They were more than just archetypes.
Everyone in Seinfeld essentially exists so Jerry can react to them. He's the only actual character. In Friends, all of the characters can react and relate to one another.
This post was edited on 5/11/15 at 10:46 am
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:47 am to Baloo
quote:
One of the biggest difference between the shows is that I actually CARED what happened to the Friends. They built a world in which you invested in the characters, and that actually enriched the comedy. They were more than just archetypes.
Further to your point, there is no way Friends could have ended the way Seinfeld did without the entire fanbase storming the writer's room and hanging every single person with a fingerprint on the show. For Seinfeld, it was actually sort of funny. Sort of.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:57 am to Baloo
quote:
Almost every episode was a gimmick
I don't see how you could think this. There was only one "gimmick" type episode. Pretty much every other episode in the entire series was just a normal show detailing the happenings and goings on of a group of friends. HIMYM, Community, and a host of other shows legit has "gimmick" type episodes (and that's not to say the episodes were bad at all), whereas Seinfeld was essentially the same format for 9 years. I fail to see the gimmick part of it.
quote:
the central conceit was to be a "show about nothing"
I've always taken umbrage with that, as I personally think it's a show about everything. It would be impossible to watch even 4 or 5 random episodes of seinfeld and not personally relate to a situation they're in.
quote:
Seinfeldian characters barely resembled human beings,
You can say they're overly mean, but each character had feelings and felt joy, anxiety, sadness, loss, etc over the show. What's more human than that?
quote:
a show with somewhat believable characters? OK, Friends
Phoebe is one of the most unrealistic characters on any popular sitcom ever and it's a wonder Joey can even put his own pants on.
quote:
One of the biggest difference between the shows is that I actually CARED what happened to the Friends. They built a world in which you invested in the characters, and that actually enriched the comedy. They were more than just archetypes.
I can see that, and I'll buy it. All that means is that Friends devoted more of their time to the viewer connecting on an emotional level with the characters. It doesn't mean that Seinfeld is wrong or subpar becauase they didn't go in that direction.
quote:
Everyone in Seinfeld essentially exists so Jerry can react to them
that seems to be an exagerration but I can see where you're coming from. But even if that were 100% absolutely true...so what? Isn't the point of a sitcom to be funny and entertaining? Seinfeld is a show that I (and many, many others) can just watch a random episode on TBS that I've seen hundreds of times and still bust out laughing at. I'd say it did it's job exceptionally well in beign funny and the humor holding up. Which is all that should really matter in a comedy TV show.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:59 am to LoveThatMoney
quote:
For Seinfeld, it was actually sort of funny. Sort of.
The series ended with Jerry and George having the exact same conversation they were having in the opening of the pilot, to which Jerry says "haven't we had this conversation before?"
I thought it was great.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 11:01 am to TigersGeaux001
I like Friends better because of the balance of characters.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 11:20 am to TigersGeaux001
I prefer a thread title to not scream at me.
How I Met Your Mother was better.
How I Met Your Mother was better.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 11:38 am to Baloo
quote:
Seinfeld is overrated as hell. And it has spawned a legion of shows that revel in being clever without actually telling jokes or bothering to be funny (yes, that's a slam on Arrested Development, too).
Posted on 5/11/15 at 11:40 am to TigersGeaux001
HIMYM was funnier, and was the better series up until the last 2 or 3 seasons when it went into hyper decline.
Friends had a vastly superior ending and was more consistant, throughout.
I personally enjoyed HIMYM because it had more over the top humor at times, featured Neil Patrick Harris & Jason Segal, and had hilarious running gags like "Robin Sparkles", Slaps, and Barney's challenges. The last few seasons really hurt its legacy, though.
Friends had a vastly superior ending and was more consistant, throughout.
I personally enjoyed HIMYM because it had more over the top humor at times, featured Neil Patrick Harris & Jason Segal, and had hilarious running gags like "Robin Sparkles", Slaps, and Barney's challenges. The last few seasons really hurt its legacy, though.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 11:44 am to Baloo
quote:
Everyone in Seinfeld essentially exists so Jerry can react to them. He's the only actual character. In Friends, all of the characters can react and relate to one another.
I can totally agree with this. However, I actually like that about Seinfield. Its what drew me to it. The over-the-top of it.
With that said, I like Friends better than How I Met Your Mother. I binge watched HIMYM recently and enjoyed the hell out of it. Most of the high points people talked about here are what I liked too.
I have no desire to watch HIMYM again, but Friends, I watch often.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 11:50 am to TigersGeaux001
As a big fan of both shows, I have to give it to friends easily. I loved himym through season 4-5, but then it fell off pretty good. It still had some good episodes, but it wasn't like it was before. I find friends got stronger as it went along until maybe the last two seasons started declining. They quit at the right time in my opinion. Himym lasted about 2 seasons too long.
Posted on 5/11/15 at 11:54 am to kingbob
Todya, if given the choice of watching a single episode, I would much rather sit down and watch an episode of HIMYM than Friends. I didn't even loyally watch HIMYM and really only catch reruns. Friends I watched by appointment the entire run of the series. Now I can't stand to watch a rerun of Friends. The show has not aged well and it is just not funny.
Something about Ross just makes me want to punch him in the face. I'm sitting here and literally want to punch that character in the face. Such a whiny character.
Phoebe was stupid, just dumb. Did not like her character either. She was just really shallow.
Rachael was a b*tch. She spent the entire series leading Ross on. She didn't want him, then he would get in a relationship and she wouldn't want any other woman to have him. Just an aggravating woman.
I actually like Monica, Chandler, and Joey. Chandler and Joey were great together and Monica and Chandler ending up together and how their characters progressed was excellent.
Something about Ross just makes me want to punch him in the face. I'm sitting here and literally want to punch that character in the face. Such a whiny character.
Phoebe was stupid, just dumb. Did not like her character either. She was just really shallow.
Rachael was a b*tch. She spent the entire series leading Ross on. She didn't want him, then he would get in a relationship and she wouldn't want any other woman to have him. Just an aggravating woman.
I actually like Monica, Chandler, and Joey. Chandler and Joey were great together and Monica and Chandler ending up together and how their characters progressed was excellent.
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