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Message
re: Doctor Who Season 8 Premieres this Saturday
Posted on 8/25/14 at 1:50 pm to TN Bhoy
Posted on 8/25/14 at 1:50 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Only the Daleks and (arguably) the Cybermen are pure evil in Doctor Who.
Yeah at least the cybermen seem to believe they are improving the human condition. The Doctor's companion Handles stands out as the exception, similar to Strax.
The Daleks simply hate any other life form. The only possible exceptions I can think of are dalek sec and the dalek from Dalek, both corrupted by human DNA.
1
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:04 pm to lagallifrey
quote:
The Daleks simply hate any other life form. The only possible exceptions I can think of are dalek sec and the dalek from Dalek, both corrupted by human DNA.
You could argue for the crazy one who flew through the Time War. But he was evil, just a different kind of evil.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:06 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Only the Daleks and (arguably) the Cybermen are pure evil in Doctor Who.
Is The Master not basically pure evil? Or is his evil just directed at The Doctor?
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:11 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
You could argue for the crazy one who flew through the Time War. But he was evil, just a different kind of evil.
And, of course, Clara.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:11 pm to SSpaniel
quote:
Is The Master not basically pure evil? Or is his evil just directed at The Doctor?
I don't think he's evil, just crazy. See "The End of Time"
quote:
And, of course, Clara.
So, basically, unless a Dalek is a human-hybrid or crazy, they're evil.
Once again, all I want for the next ep is the Daleks to go back to being Daleks. No stealthy shite, just fricking exterminate things. I disliked the portrayal of the Daleks in New-Who seasons 3 + 4, and hated it in Smith's seasons.
This post was edited on 8/25/14 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:14 pm to SSpaniel
Daleks and Cybermen are xenophobes. Not evil. In order to be evil one must have an understanding of right and wrong and purposely choose wrong.
Daleks and Cybermen are programmed to hate all other life.
Davros was evil. The Daleks are his evil creation but they are incapable of understanding right and wrong. Or at least not enough true understanding to be labeled as evil.
The Master is evil. He is willing to do anything to continue past his regeneration limit.
The Doctor has met far more evil out there than Daleks and Cybermen.
Just my take on evil. If one is programmed from day one to hate, they have no other option.
Daleks and Cybermen are programmed to hate all other life.
Davros was evil. The Daleks are his evil creation but they are incapable of understanding right and wrong. Or at least not enough true understanding to be labeled as evil.
The Master is evil. He is willing to do anything to continue past his regeneration limit.
The Doctor has met far more evil out there than Daleks and Cybermen.
Just my take on evil. If one is programmed from day one to hate, they have no other option.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:22 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
TigerMyth36
I'm starting to think that you haven't actually understood a single episode of the show, Classic or New.
quote:
Cybermen are programmed to hate all other life.
Cybermen don't hate. They have no emotions.
quote:
Davros was evil. The Daleks are his evil creation but they are incapable of understanding right and wrong. Or at least not enough true understanding to be labeled as evil.
If they can hate, they have some sort of moral compass.
quote:
The Master is evil. He is willing to do anything to continue past his regeneration limit.
The Master has never really been portrayed as evil, just crazy and arrogant. And the New-Who Master doesn't give a frick about regenerating.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:27 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
they have some sort of moral compass.
See The Time of the Doctor...re: Tasha Lem
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:28 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
Daleks and Cybermen are programmed to hate all other life.
Huh?? The cybermen are not portrayed this way at all. They tried to ally with daleks. They don't hate anyone, they just want to upgrade all humans.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:34 pm to lagallifrey
Cybermen are basically borg wanting to assimilate everything, thus not evil. Sorry for lumping them in with the Daleks who do hate everything.
And TN is nuts if he doesn't think The Master is evil. Old Who, he clearly understood right and wrong and he chose wrong to continue living.
And TN is nuts if he doesn't think The Master is evil. Old Who, he clearly understood right and wrong and he chose wrong to continue living.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:36 pm to TigerMyth36
Yeah I think one can be both crazy and evil.
Posted on 8/26/14 at 10:38 pm to lagallifrey
Finished watching the end for the second time, so a few thoughts: what difference does it make if he personally pushed him out the door or just convinced him to jump and kill himself? Paradise, whatever it is, really does look like it has the layout of a tardis. I had forgotten how dinosaurs, and specifically t-Rex, were important to the Rani. She even cause overgrowth of a t-Rex before.
I wouldn't have said so before, but after second viewing I would rate it as the best intro episode of the new series, edging out the eleventh hour. Capaldi has already grown on me tremendously. He really has a chance to be one of the best 2 or 3 doctors.
I wouldn't have said so before, but after second viewing I would rate it as the best intro episode of the new series, edging out the eleventh hour. Capaldi has already grown on me tremendously. He really has a chance to be one of the best 2 or 3 doctors.
This post was edited on 8/26/14 at 10:44 pm
Posted on 8/26/14 at 11:02 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
Perhaps the doctor will meet Sir Arthur Conan Doyle but not his fictional character Sherlock Holmes.
The Great intelligence references Conan Doyle in the snowmen, and says that Sherlock and Watson were created based on Vastra and jenny. So that seems like confirmation that Sherlock doesn't actually exist in the Who universe. He (dr. Simian) even says, "I'm perfectly aware Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character."
This post was edited on 8/26/14 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 8/26/14 at 11:25 pm to TigerMyth36
The Daleks are Nazis -- they want to exterminate anything that isn't them.
The Cybermen are Communists -- they want to conquer everything and put it under their umbrella.
The Cybermen are Communists -- they want to conquer everything and put it under their umbrella.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 5:22 am to lagallifrey
quote:
I wouldn't have said so before, but after second viewing I would rate it as the best intro episode of the new series, edging out the eleventh hour
Let's not get nuts now
Posted on 8/27/14 at 5:24 am to TigerMyth36
quote:
TigerMyth
Are you even watching the show?
Every one of your points is wrong.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 7:15 am to Lacour
quote:Not a thing I said was wrong. My opinion on evil may be different than yours. I think it requires free will which Daleks and Cybermen lack due to their programming. But glad to see your normally crappy comments with no actual substance.
Every one of your points is wrong.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 7:47 am to TigerMyth36
quote:
I think it requires free will which Daleks and Cybermen lack due to their programming.
They both have advanced thinking skills with organic brains and thus can understand the concepts of good and evil acts perfectly fine. They both perform evil acts, but the thought processes used to get there certainly differ. They make choices, just like any of us, based on their greatest inclination at the time of that choice. It just so happens that the overpowering inclination basically all the time is to kill, destroy, or assimilate as the case may be. When given opportunity to commit murder, that inclination wins. Their paucity of remaining goodness doesn't remove their moral culpability and make them non-moral. The same is true for some of the more evil humans we have seen such as hitler.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 7:58 am to lagallifrey
And I disagree. From day 1 they are programmed both mechanically and biologically to hate or assimilate.
The only instances I can recall of either species showing any sense of morality was when they have been recently converted from human to non-human form. However, I haven't seen any of the McCoy years other than a couple episodes and probably not too many of the Colin Baker episodes other than the Trial of the Time Lord.
Is a computer evil? I look at Daleks as a tool Davros created. They are basically a computer with very small amount of genetic material.
Do we know who created the Cybermen? Once again, the only time I have ever seen Cybermen show any morality or sense of anything was a recently converted human somehow retaining their sense of humanity.
The Master on the other hand is a brilliant Time Lord who clearly knows right from wrong. He is definitely evil. I never considered him Crazy although new who has made him that way. I don't pay much attention to him in new who because of the batshit crazy FLYING bullshite they pulled.
The only instances I can recall of either species showing any sense of morality was when they have been recently converted from human to non-human form. However, I haven't seen any of the McCoy years other than a couple episodes and probably not too many of the Colin Baker episodes other than the Trial of the Time Lord.
Is a computer evil? I look at Daleks as a tool Davros created. They are basically a computer with very small amount of genetic material.
Do we know who created the Cybermen? Once again, the only time I have ever seen Cybermen show any morality or sense of anything was a recently converted human somehow retaining their sense of humanity.
The Master on the other hand is a brilliant Time Lord who clearly knows right from wrong. He is definitely evil. I never considered him Crazy although new who has made him that way. I don't pay much attention to him in new who because of the batshit crazy FLYING bullshite they pulled.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:19 am to TigerMyth36
quote:
Is a computer evil? I look at Daleks as a tool Davros created. They are basically a computer with very small amount of genetic material.
No, but I just don't equate them with computers. They're more complex than that. The dalek is an organic being. Without that creature the shell does nothing. That being I would call evil. It can still make choices and has true emotions, it's just its main emotion is hate and its desires are largely evil. If the dalek were truly a non-moral entity, why would the doctor feel guilty about killing them at all or hesitate to do so?
Now the cyberman shell can perform basic actions without the brain, but there is also the matter of the controlling cyber consciousness, which I would call evil. Now does the brain in an individual cyberman make choices or is it merely being used as processing power for a central or distributed consciousness? Not sure.
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