re: Discussion: Top 200 Movies We Agree Don't Suck - 2.0

Damn, sorry i missed this debate, I want to comment, but don't have time right now to really get into it, plus i'm on my phone
will have to revist later

Can someone link the MWADs lists for the decades? Saomebody linked the voting but I'm looking for the final lists. Thanks

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I just want to add one thing to the debate here, and that's the fact that too much cultural acceptance actually hurts a film's critical reputation.

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Yes and No. I think it invites us to be wary of why we like things so much, or at least it should.

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It seems counter-factual, but a film's widespread acceptance tends to feed a backlash. There's always been a groundswell of contrarian anti-Citizen Kane feeling just because of it's reputation as the Greatest Movie Ever.

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Yeah and it dropped significantly after the 90s in terms of respect, so this is true.

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Now, with the recent Sight and Sound poll, I expect Vertigo to drop in our poll. It was top 5 last time and while I'm not tracking the voting at all (I like to be surprised), I'd be stunned if it's now a top 10 film just because of backlash. Also, part of Vertigo's critical rep was that it WASN'T Citizen Kane. It was the "smart person's choice" or whatever. Now, it has been robbed of that cachet of cool.

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I moved it up

I had Rear Window in my top 5 last time. And I almost added Notorious to my list as well. Heck it was North by Northwest that was "the" Hitchcock before Vertigo.

I think it generally can align with what we value in our art. I think for Citizen Kane it was generally two things: The Story Structure and the Technical Camerawork that generally elevate it (also the writing and story and performances are all magnificent), but it was always referenced in terms of technical appeal.

Vertigo's quick ascension in the 2000s, was DEFINITELY brought on by its focus on paranoia and the internal struggle of Stewart's character. It had the "what is real, what is not real?" question that grew to great prominence in the late 90's as well as fancy camera tricks, great acting, script, etc.

I think we begin to value things differently, and this CAN affect how a movie is accepted or rejected, clearly has an effect on the "greats."

I went by the objective:

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it wasn’t a “Best Movies Ever List,” and it wasn’t an “Our Favorite Movies List.” It sat somewhere between that discussion; it was a list that evoked the best of what film had to offer AND the ability of film to entertain.

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Looking at that totality and acting, story, soundtrack, directing and cultural resonance as well as just pure entertainment.

My list tried to reflect that as much as possible. Sometimes other factors weighed more than others but the Top 10 tried to be the best combination of all factors...and of course, because I like them as well.

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but it was always referenced in terms of technical appeal.

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People also forget that it's wildly entertaining.

Another thing with the Godfather and that whole related class of 70s man-movies starring certain actors and touching certain themes is that for a lot of people, their "high art" cinema viewing experience is limited to these movies (add Spielberg and maybe Kubrick). And I'm not saying this necessarily as a knock the movies or their viewers, because my chief avenue into the appreciating cinema was through these movies.

There's also the "blockbuster epic" and "American film" biases that have to be taken into account if you're going to do a sociology of why people rate certain movies very high. Sometimes people rate movies high as a status symbol--i.e., because they are "supposed" to show off their cultural capital--but I think the reasons and ways this happens are pretty complex and can't (at least usually) be boiled down to "people like x because they are supposed to like x".

Also, I'm gonna need some criticism of my list. I mean clearly it's perfect, but still.

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Would Zoolander be one of the forty movies I could watch for the rest of my life? Hell Yes.

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Wait. And you hate Woody Allen?

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1. Unrealistic. You dial 9-1-1.
2. The book is better.
3. Had about 2 too many samurai for my tastes.
4. Should have left the cannoli and take the gun. Terrible American.
5. I prefer Van Sant's.
6. Ain't nobody got time for that.
7. POLANSKI POLANSKI POLANSKI POLANSKI POLANSKI
8. Can't film something if it's hidden. Dumb.
9. I hate silent films. So boring.
10. Mama taught me not to run with scissors so I steered clear of this disaster.
11. I prefer the Hobbit.
12. Only Americans can make good westerns.
13. If I wanted to watch a funny baseball movie, I'd just watch the Astros.
14. This one really launched Josh Hartnett's career forward.
15. See 12.
16. I didn't like the ending why didn't they catch the bad guy I just thought that was really lame
17. The play was better.
18. Pan Power Rankings: 1) Sauce 2) Peter 3) da ... 87) 's Labyrinth
19. I quit watching after they dipped that lady in gold paint buckets.
20. This movie indirectly caused Fever Pitch to be made.

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I saw where this post was going and that reeled me in. I 'd pretty good.

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10. Mama taught me not to run with scissors so I steered clear of this disaster

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Oscar Pistorius taught your mom.

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18. Pan Power Rankings: 1) Sauce 2) Peter 3) da ... 87) 's Labyrinth

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Your Pan rankings suck: 1) Labyrinth 2) Peter 3) am 4) da.... 5) seared steak (probably should be 1 but I'm on the iPad and to lazy to reorder) 6) ama beach 7) frying 8) cake (also has a dog in the number 1 fight).

Is it too late to vote?