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Message
re: Discussion: Top 200 Movies We Agree Don't Suck - 2.0
Posted on 3/6/13 at 4:25 pm to Freauxzen
Posted on 3/6/13 at 4:25 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
If you want to rag on that guy, then I get to rag on people putting Godfather in the Top 10
Thinking that The Godfather is overrated is one thing, I get it, its a movie that seemingly everyone calls one of the few greatest of all time. When talking about The Godfather I, I am one of those people. To criticize someone ranking the Godfather in their Top 10 is not the same as criticizing someone for ranking Walk Hard, a parody, in their Top 10. Walk Hard is a funny movie, I laughed my arse off a few times while watching it but its just a cheap parody. Who directed and starred in The Godfathers? Everybody knows that off the top their head. Who directed and starred in Walk Hard? Nobody cares. With all that said, I suppose people should be able to vote for whoever they want. As stated, this is not a favorite movie list or a best movie list, it is somewhere in between. If someone wants to put a silly movie like that in their top 10 best/favorite movies thats fine, it will just draw criticism like it did in this case.
This post was edited on 3/6/13 at 4:31 pm
1
Posted on 3/6/13 at 4:49 pm to Fenwick86
quote:
To criticize someone ranking the Godfather in their Top 10 is not the same as criticizing someone for ranking Walk Hard, a parody, in their Top 10.
It's exactly the same thing. You're automatically making an assumption that Walk Hard CAN'T be in the Top 10, which, unless you have a proven method of analyzing films, is impossible to stand behind.
quote:
Walk Hard is a funny movie, I laughed my arse off a few times while watching it but its just a cheap parody.
Did it achieve exactly what it set out to do? That's a start.
quote:
Who directed and starred in The Godfathers? Everybody knows that off the top their head. Who directed and starred in Walk Hard? Nobody cares.
Sorry to be blunt, but: Who gives a shite who starred and directed in a film? That has absolutely NOTHING to do with quality or ranking. It just makes a higher quality film more probable.
And even if you did care, look at Baloo's comment earlier, it is spot on: No other director has taken quite the fall of Coppola.
Name me the actors in City of God, a movie that many will call the best modern Foreign language film, off the top of your head. Who cares?
quote:
If someone wants to put a silly movie like that in their top 10 best/favorite movies thats fine, it will just draw criticism like it did in this case.
I'll apologize in advance for getting a little worked up...
quote:
Fenwick86
This is not specifically to you but to the sentiment in general.
This is precisely the issue at stake here. You've already decided that it's "silly" that Walk Hard is in the Top 10 and that Godfather "automatically" deserves such distinction. You don't think that ,quite possibly, you've been bred to believe just that. That culture has automatically given the nod to Godfather, and that you have bought into its "supposed greatness?"
Why? Why automatically?
Now, I get some response, often negative, about the idea that there is such a thing as a perfect film, and that there is an objective (and maybe statistical way) to determine the quality of art. I think it may be true, and Godfather may in fact represent such an outcome.
But if you can already say wholeheartedly that Godfather automatically deserves the top 10 and Walk Hard doesn't deserve the Top 10, then you MUST have figured that equation out. Please tell us, because that's the only way your "silly" comment has any legs.
quote:
it will just draw criticism like it did in this case.
And if you're going to let the "silliness," give you a just reason to argue against Walk Hard, then well....
You're just as silly for letting others tell you how to think. Unless you can write a paper on The Godfather articulating precisely WHY it deserves the Top 10 spot and if you are just going on the FEELING and PERCEPTION that it deserves the Top 10 spot, then you'd be just as silly as someone putting Baby Geniuses in their Top 10.
I repeat, the above is not specifically for Fenwick86. Just that sentiment in general.
Again, sorry for getting worked up.
It's a ridiculous sentiment that Walk Hard in the Top 10 is silly.
Now 2005 Crash on the other hand, that may be silly.
Kidding.
This post was edited on 3/6/13 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 3/6/13 at 4:52 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
The reason Throne of Blood is, and probably always will be, at the top my list is because I think it is the very nature of film itself. It is the filter of everything that came before, and part of the fabric of everything that came after. ToB represents the intersection of theater, film, literature, performance, and history all wrapped in one tightly knit package (Honestly, I think the 100-110 minute mark is stuff of great film).
I really need to get off my arse and watch the rest of Kurosawa's films sometime. Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, and Ran are the only ones I've gotten around to so far.
Though I'm not a huge fan of MacBeth, which would probably limit my enjoyment of Throne of Blood. I had the same issue with Ran.
This post was edited on 3/6/13 at 4:55 pm
Posted on 3/6/13 at 6:40 pm to auyushu
Kagemusha is on Netflix instant.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 7:03 pm to Freauxzen
I was just pointing out that The Godfathers are serious films with an all star cast and director. Of course just those things do not make a movie great but it does help. Looking at your own list seems to prove that. It is filled with movies done by great directors. All were serious, well thought out pieces of work. Monty Python was done by some of the greatest comedic minds in history. Looking at IMDB, I see that Jake Kasdan directed Walk Hard. I actually saw every movie he directed and Walk Hard was his best. None of his movies will be remembered 20-30 years down the road, just my opinion. I called Walk Hard silly because it is a parody that mocks Walk the Line. It was not some well thought out master work of comedic genious. Saying it was silly was not me saying its a bad movie, I like it enough to have seen it multiple times. I did not mean to call out this persons ranking, I was just expanding on what was already said about the ranking.
Your points on The Godfathers perceived greatness are well taken. I have seen The Godfather I (or Jaws, or Goodfellas, or The Wizard of Oz) more than any other movie on my list. My admiration for that movie goes far beyond its critical acclaim. Yes, I could put together an essay arguing its greatness. Apparently, so can you as you already said you would rank it as your 43rd best/favorite movie of all time. Could one put forth an argument for Walk Hard's greatness? I'm not sure. While I disagree with you saying criticizing the ranking of those two movies are EXACTLY the same thing, I am on your side. We cant judge how people rank their movies. Its not fair. I just had to run to the Godfathers defense. Ill save any criticism, futile as it may be, for the final results.
Your points on The Godfathers perceived greatness are well taken. I have seen The Godfather I (or Jaws, or Goodfellas, or The Wizard of Oz) more than any other movie on my list. My admiration for that movie goes far beyond its critical acclaim. Yes, I could put together an essay arguing its greatness. Apparently, so can you as you already said you would rank it as your 43rd best/favorite movie of all time. Could one put forth an argument for Walk Hard's greatness? I'm not sure. While I disagree with you saying criticizing the ranking of those two movies are EXACTLY the same thing, I am on your side. We cant judge how people rank their movies. Its not fair. I just had to run to the Godfathers defense. Ill save any criticism, futile as it may be, for the final results.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 7:29 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
And that guy GENUINELY believes that Walk Hard is the number 3 film, he even listed a defense. broeho was the name.
And its not like Walk Hard is bad at all. I'd put it among the best parody films ever.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 7:48 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
I think a movie like Godfather is now so ingrained that its quality is assumed, rather than actually analyzed, and that most people like it because they are supposed to.
That thought insults the intelligence of every objective and critically-thinking moviegoer who ranks The Godfather highly. . . And there are many. A person - like myself - can be perfectly capable of thinking for himself and still consider The Godfather one of the best movies of all time.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 8:14 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
I have no problem with your genuine belief even though I think a movie like Godfather is now so ingrained that its quality is assumed, rather than actually analyzed, and that most people like it because they are supposed to. But that's another discussion.
Eh don't know about that. It wasn't like it was some flash in the pan movie by some unheard of director. it's a movie that is viewed, by the majority, to be one of the greatest directors of all time best movie. As I've mentioned a lot around here the godfathers are the two movies that made me have a better appreciation for film. IMDB's top 250 has Shawshank at 1 and The Godfather 2 I think. Obviously that's not how I listed them or how they will turn out for this top 200, but those movies aren't rated that high and played on AMC once a week because people are ingrained to think they are good. They are good because they are good *deep thinking begins* quality movies from a director who's movies have stood up after being analyzed, which I think the godfathers have.
This post was edited on 3/6/13 at 8:16 pm
Posted on 3/6/13 at 8:21 pm to Fenwick86
quote:
Fenwick86
Thank you for actually reading my post, honestly. Some would have taken the rambling personally. Cheers to that.
quote:
I was just pointing out that The Godfathers are serious films with an all star cast and director. Of course just those things do not make a movie great but it does help.
Fair enough. But it shouldn't be a knock against a movie who may not have the same privileges.
quote:
Looking at your own list seems to prove that.
All it proves is that I like these movies and rank them accordingly. I don't think that my opinion then proves anything more. I ATTEMPT to have a reason for every movie on the list, whether or not you believe me, is up to you.
quote:
All were serious, well thought out pieces of work.
quote:
2. City Lights
8. Die Hard
9. Dr. Strangelove
18. Barry Lyndon
22. Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail
34. Enter the Dragon
39. Young Frankenstein
You sure about that?
quote:
Monty Python was done by some of the greatest comedic minds in history.
I'd ask again, does that matter? It's a film that is clearly as silly, if not more than, Walk hard.
quote:
I see that Jake Kasdan directed Walk Hard. I actually saw every movie he directed and Walk Hard was his best. None of his movies will be remembered 20-30 years down the road, just my opinion.
An opinion that can't really be fact, well, for 20 or 30 years. There's plenty of time for Kasdan to make a film that you may find "great."
quote:
I called Walk Hard silly because it is a parody that mocks Walk the Line. It was not some well thought out master work of comedic genious.
I'd disagree. I think it's critique on music is actually quite original and well done.
And maybe that fact is important to someone else, just like, for me, the integration of theater elements into Throne of Blood makes it something different.
quote:
Saying it was silly was not me saying its a bad movie, I like it enough to have seen it multiple times. I did not mean to call out this persons ranking, I was just expanding on what was already said about the ranking.
But you did say the silliness justified your critique. Why?
quote:
Yes, I could put together an essay arguing its greatness. Apparently, so can you as you already said you would rank it as your 43rd best/favorite movie of all time.
Eh, I'm being generous, but yeah it has its high points.
quote:
Could one put forth an argument for Walk Hard's greatness? I'm not sure.
I'm sure someone could lay out points and attempt to, yes.
quote:
While I disagree with you saying criticizing the ranking of those two movies are EXACTLY the same thing,
But unless you can PROVE Godfather's greatness then they ARE exactly the same thing. Is it a verifiable FACT that The Godfather is greater? I'm just not sure.
quote:
I am on your side. We cant judge how people rank their movies. Its not fair. I just had to run to the Godfathers defense.
There's no need to defend The Godfather, I wasn't really attacking it. If we actually want to have a debate about the Godfather's quality, I'd be happy to.
quote:
Ill save any criticism, futile as it may be, for the final results.
It will be a fun thread.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 8:22 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
And its not like Walk Hard is bad at all. I'd put it among the best parody films ever.
I'd agree with this 100%.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 8:28 pm to Patrick_Bateman
quote:
That thought insults the intelligence of every objective and critically-thinking moviegoer who ranks The Godfather highly. . . And there are many.
Then be insulted.
If you want to automatically assume that Godfather is great and question the idea that any other film is great, AND, as the comment was directed (not aggressively mind you) FIND JUSTIFICATION TO DOWNPLAY OTHER FILMS BECAUSE OF SOME PERCEIVED GREATNESS MEASUREMENT, then you probably deserved to be insulted.
Remember, this wasn't an OFF THE WALL INSULT of the Godfather or its fans, it was a reaction to a sentiment expressed in the thread.
Read this comment again:
quote:
If someone wants to put a silly movie like that in their top 10 best/favorite movies thats fine, it will just draw criticism like it did in this case.
I don't believe Fenwick really meant it as such, but there is a touch of saying the Godfather can't be questioned, but Walk Hard can.
That wasn't an isolated comment, so you shouldn't take it as such, so please refer to the context. But yes, see above if you would like to be insulted.
quote:
A person - like myself - can be perfectly capable of thinking for himself and still consider The Godfather one of the best movies of all time.
I agree 100%. And so can people who find Walk Hard as the #3 film of all-time.
This post was edited on 3/6/13 at 8:37 pm
Posted on 3/6/13 at 8:35 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
It wasn't like it was some flash in the pan movie by some unheard of director. it's a movie that is viewed, by the majority, to be one of the greatest directors of all time best movie.
Agreed. But that doesn't change or effect anything I've said.
quote:
but those movies aren't rated that high and played on AMC once a week because people are ingrained to think they are good.
Or are they rated that high because THEY ARE played on AMC once a week? Maybe because we have a cultural conscious that has an effect on how we think? I'm not saying that's the truth, but it can be PART of the truth.
quote:
quality movies from a director who's movies have stood up after being analyzed, which I think the godfathers have.
Or, because of culture, do they stand up to being analyzed because no one has the balls to actually talk about some of the antiquated concepts, how little they have affected film IN MODERN TIMES (their influence can be argued as short, I may not argue that but it can be argued), and how we shouldn't hold them in high regard because they aren't of high moral character? Depends on your beliefs about art, but there are arguments out there to be made.
Again, not attacking the Godfather, just the sentiment that they DESERVE anything, when it comes to film, is a bit ridiculous.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 8:47 pm to Freauxzen
Fair enough. When I posted that reply, I hadn't read all the subsequent conversation in this thread. Now, I see the context of your comments.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 8:47 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Could one put forth an argument for Walk Hard's greatness? I'm not sure.
Because it perfectly broke down the formula of the musical biopic, and had a hell of a soundtrack. Plus it was funny as frick. This scene almost brings me to tears; if you don't find this funny, you don't have a terrible sense of humor: LINK
Posted on 3/6/13 at 9:17 pm to Patrick_Bateman
quote:
Fair enough. When I posted that reply, I hadn't read all the subsequent conversation in this thread. Now, I see the context of your comments.
Like I said, I know I'm being a little overly serious, but the original two comments based on that could be seen as someone else as being quite negative to someone else's opinion around here. That someone who thinks Walk Hard is a Top 3 movie is "silly," and that only people who like Godfather have valid opinions.
I don't want this list (or this board) being reflective of that sentiment. So, again, I apologize for taking it seriously.
But if we all liked the Godfather around here, either it would be extremely boring to post, or we'd all be dead because the film romanticizes violence and mafia archetypes. Either way, it would suck.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 10:03 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Thank you for actually reading my post, honestly. Some would have taken the rambling personally. Cheers to that.
Only because you did the same in response to my rambling.
quote:
There's plenty of time for Kasdan to make a film that you may find "great."
This is true.
quote:
I think it's critique on music is actually quite original and well done.
This is also true. The more we talk about it and I think about how funny it was, the more I am toning down the criticism. It is definitely clever in more ways than one. Also, it does more than parody Walk the Line, it mocks that made for TV Beach Boys movie. The acid problem, the ridiculous song he is composing. The person who ranked it that high had favorite movies in mind while ranking and there is nothing wrong with that.
quote:
But unless you can PROVE Godfather's greatness then they ARE exactly the same thing. Is it a verifiable FACT that The Godfather is greater? I'm just not sure.
Perhaps. I meant that because of the Godfathers talent (directors and cast) and accolades it was not the same. This point is really only true by default. The Godfather was released in 1972 and has garnered much critical acclaim. Walk Hard was released less than 10 years ago so it is impossible to judge how it will be remembered later on down the road.
quote:
There's no need to defend The Godfather, I wasn't really attacking it.
Yeah I realize that now, you were just using it as an example of a film that someone could say is ranked to high.
quote:
It will be a fun thread
Hells yeah it will be, it already is fun. This thread and voting thread have already given me several movies I need to see.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 10:15 pm to Freauxzen
Hey Freaux when does the voting close? Cause what I'm going to do is wait until the last minute then pick my 40 movies from everyone else's 40 lists that way I'll be assured this time that all my movies make the the final cut. 
Posted on 3/6/13 at 10:25 pm to Fenwick86
quote:
Fenwick86
Agree all around.
Posted on 3/6/13 at 10:25 pm to constant cough
quote:
Hey Freaux when does the voting close? Cause what I'm going to do is wait until the last minute then pick my 40 movies from everyone else's 40 lists that way I'll be assured this time that all my movies make the the final cut.
We have some Buenel. Some Oldboy. Some others. Post your real list, we need your perspective.
This post was edited on 3/6/13 at 10:26 pm
Posted on 3/7/13 at 7:47 am to Freauxzen
Good lord I started a holy war
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