13 Reasons Why....

I have no idea how a show like this that would have been a run of the mill series on Freeform became a smash hit on Netflix.

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Because it's on Netflix

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So was Hemlock Grove.

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It absolutely glamorizes suicide; that's not debatable.

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The creators of the show as well as the actors would disagree.

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Instead of going to her parents (who were shown to be extremely understanding and open with her) or the police she decides to commit suicide?

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You could probably say this about almost all teenage suicides so...

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95% of the shite she went through was normal high school stuff that she overdramatized and, even, insitiuted her own "bullying" campaign as retaliation. She was a hypocrite drama queen who shows that, hey, things may not be going the best for you now so suicide is as easy as a bath and some razor blades.

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A bit over dramatic don't you think?

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I remember thinking after a while, "Yeah, I get why this chick killed herself." Which is fine for someone like me. But a depressed teenager could absolutely watch this and use it as motivation to commit suicide, or worse, copycat the girl in the book

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Exactly. I'm not going to get my panties in a wad, but if I had an impressionable teenage daughter at home I would worry about her watching this show.

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The creators of the show

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Selena Gomez is who you want to hang your hat on? Of course the people in the show are going to defend it; you expect them to say "yea, I guess we could have done it better"?

Like I said in the other "13 Reasons Why" thread, the show was obviously aimed at pre-teens and had more holes in it than Swiss cheese. In my opinion the acting is subpar (and visible tattoos on high schoolers? That's just lazy) and the story even less so. The reason it is getting so much attention is this topic we're on now having everyone rush to Netflix to see what all the fuss is about. I don't see how this will relate to a second season.

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could of dealt with the mental health problems

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That's the biggest problem with the show in my opinion. A person that was just raped and is going through depression doesn't go home and concoct an elaborate package of tapes with full-proof assurances everyone has to listen and then climb into bath and kill themselves.

If she was mentally ill, fine, but the show didn't depict that well enough. The entirety of the series left me saying she did it all to say "see? You all did this to me! Feel terrible about yourselves!" to get the last laugh.

Also I feel like the show completely missed the intention of what they claimed it was supposed to bring to light (bullying) because now everyone couldn't care less about the rape or what happened before...everyone is talking about the suicide which was just supposed to be seen as a final straw.

Jesus dude. They made it out to be that way at first but this chick was legit raped. I mean I don't condone suicide but i wouldn't classify her situation as normal high school stuff

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It absolutely glamorizes suicide; that's not debatable.

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Where?

Was it the repeatable scenes that showed her to be a fallible character? When it was highlighted as a plot point? That at least some of the things she says is 100% confirmed to be untrue?

Or maybe it was when they kept browbeating all of the tragic missed opportunities and connections between her and Clay, culminating with her daydreamed fantasy on his tape.

Or maybe it was showing just how fricked up it leaves loved ones. Hell, Clay was getting so buried in guilt he literally started to lose his grip on reality, and lashing out in uncharacteristic and self destructive ways. Not even meationing the parents here, just the people high school girls would feel closest too.

Or maybe it was her outright screams of pain when she cut herself. The trembling from shock. The gasps of air that are similar to gulps as the blood visibly gushed over her unsteady hands.

Come the frick on. I can see legit arguments that the series can cause more harm than good, but how on earth can you say it glamorizes the act or puts even the slightest positive spin on it.

Hell, her tapes didn't even get the result of vengeance on her biggest demon. Clay did that.

And vengeance angle took a huge undercut when it is proven that the note wasn't thrown away, thus showing an accusation to be flawed and her feelings to be without merit.


Jesus.

*stepping back to a more general rant now*

It seems a lot of people miss the entire fricking point of the series.

It's not meant for you to clinically look at the reasons and go "okay, I can see killing myself under these circumstances."

It's

1) to show the perspective and thought processes of an individual who suffers from depression. How otherwise small things can add up over time to a big result for them. It's to build empathy to those that suffer from it. Which in turn connects to the primary point of the show

2) Don't be a selfish a-hole with those you associate with in your life. Think outside of the box of your own perspectives and empathize to the point of looking through theirs.

You never know what they might be going through. THAT is the core theme of the show. NOT the reasons why Hannah killed herself and how she felt about it.

Why do you think so much time is spent showing Justin's struggles?

Or did anyone consider the full implications of Zach's note? Hannah assumed he didn't care, and let it influence her perceptions and actions. The reality was that Zach took her note to heart. He felt so profoundly guilty about it that he kept her note attacking him. Not because she died, but nearly a full year before her death. That note was kept safe, a full albatross on his neck while Hannah was still alive.

You really can go on and on with the characters. Some are unreservedly shitty people. But most are just people each with their own struggles, even if they don't wear them on their sleeves.

And THAT knowledge is what the series wanted to drill in. That is the deeper meaning in the line "your truth vs Hannah's truth." You never really know what's going on in someone's life. Hell, sometimes the loudest laughter might be coming from someone trying too hard to distract themselves from some personal demon. Why else you think a very common theme in so many suicides is shock and surprise from those left behind?

But nope, all you saw was a show about a hypocrite drama queen.

One of the best produced shows on netflix with a surprisingly good young cast. Definitely recommend it if you can stomach the subject matter.

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I can see legit arguments that the series can cause more harm than good, but how on earth can you say it glamorizes the act or puts even the slightest positive spin on it.

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I never said it glamorizes the actual act; I said it glamorizes the thought of suicide as a viable means for anyone going through difficult times. The girl was raped, I get that, but to build it up to that over 12 hours was stretching it. Most of what she went through up to that point was generic high school bullshite.

I'll give you Justin's tape; that was pretty messed up for her up-skirt pic to go all over the school but let's look at all the other "shite" she claims led to her suicide:

Jessica; for dating Alex.

Alex; for saying she had the best arse in high school.

Tyler; for stalking her. (fair enough but she throws that reason out the window when she institutes a bullying campaign against him in retaliation)

Courtney; for denying she is a lesbian and starting a rumor.

Marcus; for being a sleazeball that she quickly shuts down.

Zach; for stealing notes (I mean, give me a break)

Ryan; for posting her poem anonymously in his magazine.

Justin, again; for not knowing, as a high school kid, how to properly handle knowing his girlfriend was raped (sound familiar?)

Sheri; for hitting a stop sign that may have caused a death. This is one of the biggest holes for me...Clay goes to the parents and says "he wasn't drunk" because the kid told him he wasn't but we're really going to say the cops didn't test the kids BAC when they found beer cans in his car after his death?

Clay; for the biggest bullshite this show put out. Actually LEAVING a room when a woman he was being intimate with says "NO!" and to get out. They actually had the gall to romanticize a woman saying no but that she actually wanted him to stay...what precedent does that set in a world where rape accusations are running rampant? "You should have tried harder, I wanted you to.." No, that's bullshite.

Bryce; understandable but instead of getting help she initiates a series of choices that she feels was enough and reaches out to the one counselor at school, that she admittedly only met with twice, as the final straw.

Mr. Porter; she obviously knew that his hands were going to be tied. Why go into the meeting with your phone recording if you weren't trying to lay the blame solely on a person's shoulders? She didn't want to give up Bryce's name for whatever reason. Lets play out how Hannah wanted that to play out;

- I was raped by a student here at this school
- Oh, can you give me the name?
- No, I just want help.
- Ok, we will just allow a sexual predator to continue attending this public institution and get you the help you need no questions asked.

No, the school will want a name and will report it to the proper authorities as well as informing her parents; the name was coming out eventually but Hannah wanted a reason.

I'm not saying she was a drama queen for committing suicide; I'm saying she was a drama queen for the entirety of the show (outside of 3 minutes in a hot tub) and put together an elaborate campaign to pass blame on her actions. Rape is obviously not a joking matter but, had that not happened in the show, we would all be saying that none of what happened to her was trivial.

I understand the whole point of the show is to show how events build up in a person that is depressed but it definitely glamorizes the thought of suicide as a valid option and a way for people to "open their eyes" to their actions. There's a wealth of resources out their for people but that doesn't get views or ratings.