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re: Yes or No: Duncan is the better player than Kobe all time
Posted on 5/16/17 at 11:42 am to AjaxFury
Posted on 5/16/17 at 11:42 am to AjaxFury
quote:
Mid-range game by a mile, & the unstoppable fadeaway. Lebron struggles with this aspect.
It's an inefficient shot. That Kobe placed an emphasis on the mid-range game would go a long way in explaining why his career PER was so much lower.
But sometimes you need to have a tough bucket, and Kobe was probably the best bad-shot maker in history.
0
Posted on 5/16/17 at 11:49 am to imraged
quote:
If that's all you're going to take into account of course you'd think Kobe's the superior defender. LeBron's greatest value is that he's great both as a perimeter help defender and as a rim protector on top of one on one defense. Kobe was also great one on one and as a help defender but never had the impact of a big man defensively.
LeBron was amazing in last season's playoffs serving as the linchpin of the defense that shut down GS's "death lineup."
I don't disagree with anyone of this, it's quite good of an analysis. Probably the most rational I've seen in this thread. I think Lebron was a better help defender, but Kobe was great at that too no doubt.
Age 18-24 Kobe played defense before zone defense existed, which is almost 1/2 of Lebron's career. People can call it bias if they want, I was simply acknowledging the last peak 1 on 1 defender before zone changed how we look at things.
Others who are throwing out metrics of Lebron's "numbers" defensively aren't isolating them thru Kobe's age 32 year. They are including ages 33-damn near 40, so of course those extra 6-7 yrs or whatever drop those career "numbers" significantly.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 11:51 am to shel311
quote:
The list of people who don't realize LeBron is by far better than Kobe.
The bold part is where you lose me. The part where you're inner fan boy comes out. The part where you cease being an impartial observer.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 11:52 am to AjaxFury
quote:
The part where you're inner fan boy comes out. The part where you cease being an impartial observer.
As opposed to you, of course.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 11:56 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
eye test + awards
Did any of you WATCH Kobe play D in his prime?
Or all you have is meaningless numbers that completely ignore his first 6 years in the league without zone defense? You know, the seasons where your "numbers" can't analyze.
Seems pretty disingenuous excluding 6 years of his prime just to "win" a subjective discussion...
Posted on 5/16/17 at 11:57 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
Can't back up your eye test with objective facts so you lash out. Poor baby.
I'm actually smiling at laughing at the absurdity
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:00 pm to AjaxFury
quote:Defensive Rating:
Others who are throwing out metrics of Lebron's "numbers" defensively aren't isolating them thru Kobe's age 32 year. They are including ages 33-damn near 40, so of course those extra 6-7 yrs or whatever drop those career "numbers" significantly.
Defensive Win Shares:
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:00 pm to AjaxFury
We're doing the same with your emotional argument
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:01 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
Where's the highlights???
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:01 pm to AjaxFury
quote:Yes. I'm the same age as you. You can save the "back in my day" nonsense.
Did any of you WATCH Kobe play D in his prime?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:02 pm to AjaxFury
quote:
Did any of you WATCH Kobe play D in his prime? Or all you have is meaningless numbers that completely ignore his first 6 years in the league without zone defense? You know, the seasons where your "numbers" can't analyze.
I did. Kobe was a damn good defender but not as versatile as LBJ. Also if LBJ played in the Era of no zone defense he likely doesn't lose to the Mavs in that finals. Just food for thought.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:02 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
Dallas fans don't fall too far from the Boomshakala HOU tree after all.
ALL ABOUT YHAT EYE TEST!
ALL ABOUT YHAT EYE TEST!
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:03 pm to AjaxFury
quote:In the 2001-2002 (he turned 22)-- when the defense rule changes were put into place--to 2011-2012 when Kobe turned 32, he had a defensive rating of 105 in the regular season and 106 in the playoffs.
Others who are throwing out metrics of Lebron's "numbers" defensively aren't isolating them thru Kobe's age 32 year.
In that same 11 year span, from 22 to 32, LeBron has a defensive rating of 102 in the regular season and 101 in the playoffs.
So that's a 3 point advantage for LeBron in the regular season and a 5 point advantage on the playoffs.
This post was edited on 5/16/17 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:03 pm to monkeybutt
quote:
There is no reason to debate you because anything pro lebron is spun as bias, while you have your head so far up Kobe's arse you can tell us all what he had for dinner last night. It's comical.
TBF, most of y'all have Lebron's dick so far down your throats you have trouble articulating your positions without gurgling new age "advanced defensive metrics", which are the equivalent to the sound of gagging
I'm simply putting on my rubber gloves, grabbing the tweezers while turning my head not to look extracting it out of your mouths to save you from choking. You should thank me
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:04 pm to redfishfan
LBJ in his prime in Miami could guard the 1-5 positions. He'd guard Rose, KD, and Al Jefferson over the course of the season. And he'd completely neutralize them.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:06 pm to theducks
quote:
LBJ in his prime in Miami could guard the 1-5 positions.
He defended Rondo, Pierce, KG, and Brandon Bass in the same game. I was like WTF LeBron.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:06 pm to buckeye_vol
Let's talk about the teams they had too. For much of your Sample, LeBron had Larry Hughes, Eric Smow and Ilgauskias. Kobe was playing with MUCH more polished teams yet his defense is OBJECTIVELY rated worse.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:07 pm to redfishfan
I appreciate those Miami LeBron teams more and more every year. They had their obvious flaws but peak LeBron was awesome. When they wanted, they could lock anybody up. Mostly due to the versatility of LeBron.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:09 pm to theducks
quote:
Dallas fans don't fall too far from the Boomshakala HOU tree after all.
Doesn't surprise me. Dallas fans have been beat up by the Spurs worse than Rockets fans have.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:11 pm to AjaxFury
quote:Here are their defensive ratings for the years they shared - up until Kobe's 32yo season:
Or all you have is meaningless numbers that completely ignore his first 6 years in the league without zone defense? You know, the seasons where your "numbers" can't analyze.
Seems pretty disingenuous excluding 6 years of his prime just to "win" a subjective discussion...
Here are their defensive win shares for the years they shared - up until Kobe's 32yo season:
This post was edited on 5/16/17 at 12:16 pm
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