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re: Wouldn't an eight team playoff just shift the controversy down a few rankings?
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:23 pm to TheCaterpillar
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:23 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Yeah, but no one would care nearly as much about a 3 loss team getting pushed out.
That was basically the argument when we had the BCS and people wanted a 4 team playoff. "Sure, the #5 team might get left out but nobody will care because we'll have 4 quality teams playing each other instead of just one game between #1 & #2."
The moment we go to 8, we'll have assholes whining about expanding it to 16. It will never end.
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 4:26 pm
2
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:26 pm to FairhopeTider
quote:If you can't see the difference between the gap between #8 and #1 vs. the gap between #16 and #1, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
That was basically the argument when we had the BCS and people wanted a 4 team playoff. "Sure, the #5 team might get left out but nobody will care because we'll have 4 quality teams playing each other instead of just one game between #1 & #2."
The moment we go to 8, we'll have assholes whining about expanding it to 16.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:28 pm to FairhopeTider
[quote]That was basically the argument when we had the BCS and people wanted a 4 team playoff. "Sure, the #5 team might get left out but nobody will care because we'll have 4 quality teams playing each other instead of just one game between #1 & #2."
I think it has come true though. BCS left people claiming illegitimate titles. The controversies were WAY worse.
I think it has come true though. BCS left people claiming illegitimate titles. The controversies were WAY worse.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:30 pm to LG2BAMA
quote:Not true. If Alabama wins, they probably play Washington in Atlanta. If Alabama loses, they likely play Ohio State in Glendale.
If Alabama loses to Florida it will not matter.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:35 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
I think it has come true though. BCS left people claiming illegitimate titles. The controversies were WAY worse.
Agree and we solved those controversies. Now with the current playoff, the National Champion has to win two straight games against Top 4 teams. There is no more illegitimacy associated with the title. But now suddenly we're supposed to worry about the fairness to the #8 team.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:39 pm to Kodar
quote:
Just like in 2011 right?
In 2011 Alabama had to catch a massive break with okie state losing to Iowa state.
Knowbody thought after we'd get to the championship after the lsu loss.
We haven't even played the Florida game and I already know we'll get in win or lose
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:47 pm to LG2BAMA
quote:Yet in the end, the loss was made irrelevant. Face it, 2011 will always have a little bit of tainted feel to it in the eyes of others. Additionally, being practically guaranteed to be in is the reward for going undefeated through the regular season. Why are you unhappy that your team was rewarded for their performance through the regular season?
In 2011 Alabama had to catch a massive break with okie state losing to Iowa state.
Knowbody thought after we'd get to the championship after the lsu loss.
We haven't even played the Florida game and I already know we'll get in win or lose
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:51 pm to FairhopeTider
quote:This is the inherent flaw of CFB that we have to deal with.
Agree and we solved those controversies. Now with the current playoff, the National Champion has to win two straight games against Top 4 teams. There is no more illegitimacy associated with the title. But now suddenly we're supposed to worry about the fairness to the #8 team.
Think about this:
Can you say with total confidence that #8 has no chance of beating current #1 Bama? Your answer should be no unless you're one massively cocky SOB.
Now can you say with total confidence that #16 has no chance of beating Bama? Your answer should still be no, but the difference between the two answers should be massively different. The gap between #8 and #16 in the nature of CFB is significant.
One of the reasons we're arguing for 8 teams is what about teams like USC this year (Not saying they should be in, just for example) who started rough, but improved massively through the year? Many teams over the years have been eliminated from championship contention by the end of week 1 in CFB. There are exceptions obviously, but if they pick up two losses in the first 4 games? Chances get pretty low in current system and nigh-impossible in the BCS. Then suddenly they get REALLY hot and improve dramatically, but who cares? They sit at home because the system gives them no chance to prove they're the now best team in the nation based on improvement.
Of course, I expect a reply about this extending to 16 team playoff, but I will again iterate as should be clear by now, I do not want a 16 team playoff before other issues with CFB are fixed. Even then, I don't want a 16 team playoff unless it's done right. Additionally, I believe most people can see that there's a difference between #8 and #16 by a WIDE margin.
There's also been a push for an 8 team playoff before the 4 team playoff even began.
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 11/29/16 at 5:03 pm to Kodar
quote:It wasn't irrelevant. After that game, Alabama had to win out to have a chance, whereas LSU could afford to drop a game and still make the title game.
Yet in the end, the loss was made irrelevant.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 5:04 pm to Kodar
quote:
One of the reasons we're arguing for 8 teams is what about teams like USC this year (Not saying they should be in, just for example) who started rough, but improved massively through the year? Many teams over the years have been eliminated from championship contention by the end of week 1 in CFB. There are exceptions obviously, but if they pick up two losses in the first 4 games? Chances get pretty low in current system and nigh-impossible in the BCS. Then suddenly they get REALLY hot and improve dramatically, but who cares? They sit at home because the system gives them no chance to prove they're the now best team in the nation based on improvement.
The system gives them the same chance as everyone else which is you have to play a complete season. You get punished for having an "off week" but if the cards fall right, you get to make up for it. Again, that is what makes the college football regular season vastly superior to all others in sports.
To your point about a #8 team having a shot. This year, sure, I guess so. Last year Notre Dame finished at #8 in CFP Rankings and it had ZERO business competing for a national title.
The inherent flaw is that there will never be a perfect system given the fundamentals of College Football. So if we're never going to have a perfect system, we have to find the best balance between preserving the regular season to the point where a loss means something, finding the right process to have indisputable champion, and looking out for the best interest of the players.
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 11/29/16 at 5:29 pm to Kodar
quote:
Wouldn't an eight team playoff just shift the controversy down a few rankings? by Kodar quote: In 2011 Alabama had to catch a massive break with okie state losing to Iowa state. Knowbody thought after we'd get to the championship after the lsu loss. We haven't even played the Florida game and I already know we'll get in win or lose Yet in the end, the loss was made irrelevant. Face it, 2011 will always have a little bit of tainted feel to it in the eyes of others. Additionally, being practically guaranteed to be in is the reward for going undefeated through the regular season. Why are you unhappy that your team was rewarded for their performance through the regular season?
I'm not talking about the good of bama. The way the system is set up now we benefit greatly.
I'm talkin about college football in general. If this was years past think of all the people who could watch the Florida game hoping we lose to knock us out or to give their team a shot. No who really cares. The game is almost meaningless to anybody but the teams involved
Posted on 11/29/16 at 5:58 pm to FairhopeTider
quote:The cards can fall right, but when was the last time a 2 loss team competed for a natty? '07, which took absolute madness to even occur. Now, my point in that is simply that there is no room for error really for the sake of teams that improve dramatically. 1 loss already has the water boiling. Slip up one more time, and your arse is out. For shite's sake, we're looking at potentially leaving multiple teams out this season that look plenty deserving of a chance.
The system gives them the same chance as everyone else which is you have to play a complete season. You get punished for having an "off week" but if the cards fall right, you get to make up for it.
As for the inherent flaw of CFB, that is something I think should get more discussion, however it doesn't seem to have much steam yet.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 5:59 pm to LG2BAMA
quote:Even in the BCS, the game borders on meaningless.
I'm talkin about college football in general. If this was years past think of all the people who could watch the Florida game hoping we lose to knock us out or to give their team a shot. No who really cares. The game is almost meaningless to anybody but the teams involved
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