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Started By
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re: With talk of LeBron's last 5 game stretch being the best ever, lets compare it
Posted on 2/11/13 at 4:53 pm to jturn17
Posted on 2/11/13 at 4:53 pm to jturn17
quote:
The problem is these numbers don't take into account contexts. Things like pace, vastly improved defensive schemes in today's era, positions of players are important context for these discussions.
The players are much better athletes but the game is called much tighter than it was 20 years ago. Hand checking is no longer allowed
0
Posted on 2/11/13 at 4:56 pm to SPEEDY
Kobe averaged 43.4 ppg with around 50-60% shooting for the entire MONTH of January in 2006
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:05 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Kobe averaged 43.4 ppg the entire MONTH of January in 2006
Yes
quote:
with around 50-60% shooting
No. It was 47%.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:05 pm to Cosmo
quote:I think it's because people today never really saw him play. And then he has names like "The Round Mound of Rebound" and is goofy on TV and think he was just a pretty good for a fat guy.
People take for granted what a beast Barkley was.
Barkley was a BEAST. People don't realize he used to be able to run the floor. Barkley was the man.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:10 pm to jturn17
quote:
The problem is these numbers don't take into account contexts. Things like pace, vastly improved defensive schemes in today's era, positions of players are important context for these discussions. I'm not saying this streak is the most impressive ever, but just posting stats isn't going to get it done.
Are you kidding me? The majority of the numbers were put up when guys were actually allowed to defend scorers.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:15 pm to St Augustine
To be fair here, defense now is much better than it was in the past.
You also couldn't play zone defense in the past. You had to stick on your man or you'd be called for illegal defense. It was easier to drive and score or hit mid-range jumpers, whereas how the rules are now, it requires more outside shooting.
Also, defense in the 80's was a joke.
The game has changed a lot.
You also couldn't play zone defense in the past. You had to stick on your man or you'd be called for illegal defense. It was easier to drive and score or hit mid-range jumpers, whereas how the rules are now, it requires more outside shooting.
Also, defense in the 80's was a joke.
The game has changed a lot.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:23 pm to Tim Taylor
2007 - Kobe 5 game stretch
53.6 ppg
53% shooting
91.5% freethrow shooting
47.7% 3pt shooting
7 rpg
53.6 ppg
53% shooting
91.5% freethrow shooting
47.7% 3pt shooting
7 rpg
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:24 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Also, defense in the 80's was a joke.
It's amazing how many people still deny this when they can go on YouTube and actually watch the games
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:25 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
To be fair here, defense now is much better than it was in the past.
No it's not. It's worse.
quote:
Also, defense in the 80's was a joke.
quote:
The game has changed a lot.
True. For the worse.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:27 pm to Tim Taylor
Sorry, but you are just wrong.
You can watch the games and see how much the defense has improved.
Unless you are not watching the games, or you don't understand what you are watching, it's clear the defense is much better today than in the past.
Secondly, once again, I don't know how you cannot see that the defense in the 80's was not very good. It's not even really debatable. Go watch the games.
Here is a fun fact for you... the 1985/86 Boston Celtics averaged 114 points per game, and they were #8 out of 23 teams.
They gave up 105 points per game and were ranked #3 in that stat.
Sounds like the defenses was outstanding...
You can watch the games and see how much the defense has improved.
Unless you are not watching the games, or you don't understand what you are watching, it's clear the defense is much better today than in the past.
Secondly, once again, I don't know how you cannot see that the defense in the 80's was not very good. It's not even really debatable. Go watch the games.
Here is a fun fact for you... the 1985/86 Boston Celtics averaged 114 points per game, and they were #8 out of 23 teams.
They gave up 105 points per game and were ranked #3 in that stat.
Sounds like the defenses was outstanding...
This post was edited on 2/11/13 at 5:30 pm
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:30 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Go watch the games
Not gonna happen. It would destroy their childhoods. The NBA league stats from those years backs up what their eyes will see. Faster paced, man to man, terrible spacing, wide open shooting, all leading to astronomical shooting percentages across the entire league
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:40 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Sorry, but you are just wrong.
No I'm not. No expert or really anyone who knows dick about basketball would agree with you.
quote:
it's clear the defense is much better today than in the past.
Not even close dude.
quote:
Here is a fun fact for you... the 1985/86 Boston Celtics averaged 114 points per game, and they were #8 out of 23 teams.
They gave up 105 points per game and were ranked #3 in that stat.
Sounds like the defenses was outstanding...
Do you know why? Hint: rhymes with mace.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:43 pm to Tim Taylor
quote:
Do you know why? Hint: rhymes with mace.
yeah and pace is a great indication of defense. See: Suns with Nash
You just proved his point
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:46 pm to Tim Taylor
Couldn't have owned yourself better if you tried
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:50 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
theunknownknight
How is this confusing to you?
Higher pace = more possessions = more shot opportunities = more makes = more points.
The pace was much faster in the 80's and much more physical. Games now slow to a crawl for half of the possessions.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:52 pm to Tim Taylor
Ok, I'll even play your game...
Look at the defensive ratings and compare them. Defensive rating is the points given up per 100 possessions.
'85/'86 Houston Rockets averaged 107.6 points per 100 possessions and were ranked 14th out of 23 teams.
'12/'13 Orlando Magic average 107.8 points per 100 possessions and are ranked 25th out of 30 teams.
Look at the defensive ratings and compare them. Defensive rating is the points given up per 100 possessions.
'85/'86 Houston Rockets averaged 107.6 points per 100 possessions and were ranked 14th out of 23 teams.
'12/'13 Orlando Magic average 107.8 points per 100 possessions and are ranked 25th out of 30 teams.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:53 pm to Tim Taylor
quote:
Higher pace = more possessions = more shot opportunities = more makes = more points
= less defense
You can't be "physical" bumping and grabbing when both teams are running. What happens is defenders have to give space.
Wanna know how I know? I can pull up YouTube and actually WATCH THE FREAKING GAMES
Posted on 2/11/13 at 5:54 pm to Tim Taylor
quote:Because the defenses are better.
Games now slow to a crawl for half of the possessions.
High pace now means teams run a lot of fast breaks and get a lot of quick points off of fast breaks.
High pace then meant teams just scored quickly because the defenses sucked.
This post was edited on 2/11/13 at 5:54 pm
Posted on 2/11/13 at 6:05 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Because the defenses are better.
You keep saying that even though you know it's not true.
The game slowed down because of changes in the late 90's with coaches emphasizing a slower paced game, maximizing individual possessions, and more isos/dribbling.
quote:
High pace then meant teams just scored quickly because the defenses sucked
Which explains why guys like Bill Walton, Larry Bird, Jordan, etc. are considered the best defenders in the game's history, right?
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