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re: Where does the Cardinal/Cub rivalry rank amongst others in the majors?
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:35 pm to WestCoastAg
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:35 pm to WestCoastAg
I'd go with Yankees/Sox (though it was so much more fun when they genuinely hated eachother in the early and mid 2000s) and Sox/Rays (they still hate the frick out of eachother).
2
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:37 pm to Jcorye1
yea thats what i posted earlier. the sox/rays rivalry is fun
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:39 pm to Jcorye1
was a fun series for awhile
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:45 pm to WestCoastAg
I confess in spite of a casual fondness for both the Dodgers and the Giants when they aren't playing my Cardinals the impact of their rivalry registers a zero for me emotionally.
I like both teams, I just don't intuitively connect with them having a rivalry.
For the Cubs them having a rival in the Cardinals has been the only thing that really resonates to me about them as a franchise. They are lovable losers and they hate the Cardinals. That's their identity.
I guess this is probably a product of growing up in 80s STL and seeing the Cardinals have great games against both the Dodgers and the Giants (fight between Ozzie Smith and Will Clark, the Jeoffrey Leonard series and Ozzies' home run with the Jack Buck call... and the great Dodgers/Cards series ended with Jack Clark's home run for example).
I like both teams, I just don't intuitively connect with them having a rivalry.
For the Cubs them having a rival in the Cardinals has been the only thing that really resonates to me about them as a franchise. They are lovable losers and they hate the Cardinals. That's their identity.
I guess this is probably a product of growing up in 80s STL and seeing the Cardinals have great games against both the Dodgers and the Giants (fight between Ozzie Smith and Will Clark, the Jeoffrey Leonard series and Ozzies' home run with the Jack Buck call... and the great Dodgers/Cards series ended with Jack Clark's home run for example).
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:47 pm to tduecen
quote:
was a fun series for awhile
That weird fascination Chamberlain had with throwing at Youk was always good for a near brawl.
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:50 pm to molsusports
i feel the same way about the cards and cubs. i guess that has more to do with the fact that the cubs havent been very good outside of a few years here and there during my life
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:51 pm to Jcorye1
I would say since the Cubs are historically one of the worst franchises in baseball it ranks below many rivalries in baseball like Yankees/Red Sox and Giants/Dodgers. I would say Yankees/Dodgers since they have played against each other in many world series and used to both be in New York have a better rivalry than Cards/Cubs.
I would also say that Brewers/Cubs since the Brewers moved to the NL has been a better rivalry since it has had so many crazy games.
The only people who really care about the cubs/cards rivalry are people in middle and Southern Illinois.
I would also say that Brewers/Cubs since the Brewers moved to the NL has been a better rivalry since it has had so many crazy games.
The only people who really care about the cubs/cards rivalry are people in middle and Southern Illinois.
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:54 pm to WestCoastAg
how they managed to walk away with nothing with the pitching staff they had assembled in the early 2000s ought to boggle people's minds. can't blame it all on bartman (if any)
the cubs have obviously had some talented players along teh way tho, dawson, sandberg, grace, maddux, sutcliffe from the 80s alone
the cubs have obviously had some talented players along teh way tho, dawson, sandberg, grace, maddux, sutcliffe from the 80s alone
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:57 pm to Jcorye1
Red Sox or Yanks need another Pedro or Clemens type player to ignite things again.
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:58 pm to molsusports
quote:
can't blame it all on Bartman
Considering a double play ball bounced off Alex Gonzalez's glove soon after, Bartman shouldn't take ANY of the blame for that fiasco.
Posted on 4/5/15 at 4:59 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
its been too long. people my age really dont care about it even though you know it existed
Posted on 4/5/15 at 5:08 pm to WestCoastAg
The Dodgers/Giants to me is easily number 1. I mean that rivalry moved with the teams. Yanks/Red Sox would be 2. The thing that hurts the Cards/Cubs rivalry has been the lack of meaningful games. The few times the Cubs haven't sucked in the last half century or so have been years the Cards weren't good(84,89,98,03,etc.). You could argue the Cards/Reds has been much more heated the last five years than the Cards/Cubs ever has. Proximity is the only reason it is a rivalry.
This post was edited on 4/5/15 at 5:10 pm
Posted on 4/5/15 at 5:43 pm to UltimateHog
quote:
I think most would put it ahead of Dodgers/Giants, if the Cubs would ever be worth a shite then it would definitely be 2.
No way. People kill each other in Cali
Posted on 4/5/15 at 5:53 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
I would say since the Cubs are historically one of the worst franchises in baseball it ranks below many rivalries in baseball like Yankees/Red Sox and Giants/Dodgers. I would say Yankees/Dodgers since they have played against each other in many world series and used to both be in New York have a better rivalry than Cards/Cubs.
I would also say that Brewers/Cubs since the Brewers moved to the NL has been a better rivalry since it has had so many crazy games.
The only people who really care about the cubs/cards rivalry are people in middle and Southern Illinois.
Posted on 4/5/15 at 5:57 pm to WestCoastAg
Is it really even that big of a rivalry? Only one of the two ever wins anything, and unlike the Yanks-Sox used to be, there doesn't seem to be any real hate, seems too friendly. I remember during the 98 home run chase they were really buddy buddy during the McGwire Sosa stuff. I would have Red Sox Yankees and Dodgers Giants ahead of it in terms of long standing rivalries
Posted on 4/5/15 at 6:26 pm to msudawg1200
quote:
Cards/Reds has been much more heated the last five years than the Cards/Cubs ever has
not really
Reds got sick of the Cardinals beating them heads up and they tried to change things up with some intimidation. There have obviously been brawls between the Cardinals and Cubs at times as well.
If the criteria you use for a rivalry are the SVP style "must be looking at near an equal" and "they can hurt you just as much as you can hurt them" then not only does the Cardinals/Cubs rivalry get downgraded then so does the Yanks/Red Sox.
FWIW the Cardinals/Cubs rivalry has some interest to it off the field as well. Some people remember that Harry Carry and Jack Buck were once broadcasting partners, but fewer remember (if they ever knew) that HC supposedly left for the Cubs when he was fooling around with old man Busch's SO. "Holy cow"
Posted on 4/5/15 at 6:28 pm to molsusports
Cards Cubs is second most heated rivalry in that state
The Chiefs Raiders is a blood fued.
But in overall MLB the Cubs Cards is bigger than Yankee Red Sox as it's natural and not forced. During the 70's until late 80's nobody in CST cared about the Yankees or Red Sox. They hated the Mets
The Chiefs Raiders is a blood fued.
But in overall MLB the Cubs Cards is bigger than Yankee Red Sox as it's natural and not forced. During the 70's until late 80's nobody in CST cared about the Yankees or Red Sox. They hated the Mets
This post was edited on 4/5/15 at 6:31 pm
Posted on 4/5/15 at 6:30 pm to VADawg
quote:
Considering a double play ball bounced off Alex Gonzalez's glove soon after, Bartman shouldn't take ANY of the blame for that fiasco.
The crowd instareaction of "oh shite, again, we're doomed" was what did them in. The team didn't play like professionals either in the face of that mojo.
Posted on 4/5/15 at 6:32 pm to molsusports
No, the Reds were a threat to the Cards by winning the division 2/3 years and making the playoffs 3/4. Peter Gammons stated that the Reds/Cards games over the last five years are as intense as he's seen, even moreso than Yanks/Red Sox or Dodgers/Giants. I know it might be hard for you to see from your Cardinal high horse, but that is truth. It was just one big brawl in 2010.
This post was edited on 4/5/15 at 6:34 pm
Posted on 4/5/15 at 6:33 pm to sms151t
quote:
Cards Cubs is second most heated rivalry in that state
The Chiefs Raiders is a blood fued.
Growing up in STL the KC/Raider rivalry was just as distant as the Giants/Dodgers to me. Only teh KC area of Missouri is composed of Chiefs fans and they haven't had a personal stake in the venom since Marty was coaching for revenge against Al Davis
I guess maybe you could invoke a Mizzou/Kansas angle if you wanted an alternative but honestly the University of Missouri was only passingly relevant to me in STL as well. It was really a baseball town in the 80s. The Blues were fun with Hull and Oates, Bidwell leaving was a blessing and college sports were all but irrelevant to me then.
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