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re: Tulane's Giving Itself A Huge DISADVANTAGE In Yulman Stadium?

Posted on 8/9/14 at 12:08 am to
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
36110 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 12:08 am to
quote:


So about 60 other teams should just drop down as well, right?



Yes, you could maybe make an argument for some midmajors but most should drastically reduce their expenditures on football because it is a stupid financial investment.

It annoys me more when it comes to Tulane than say Houston or UCF because I think more highly of Tulane's stated commitment to academics as the institution's reason to exist.
Posted by saintsfan22
baton rouge
Member since May 2006
71578 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 12:17 am to
quote:

the playing field is just terribly slanted against a little guy with a smaller budget

You're putting them on the wrong playing field for some reason. They're not on center stage and aren't trying to be, and they shouldn't.

quote:

A program someone on either coast who loves the sport would consider interesting to talk about for positive reasons.

This is like 20 programs in a given year, none who are in the AAC.
quote:

Surely you don't argue going to a bowl means relevance.

Your definition of relevance is unobtainable by most football programs.
quote:

The lesser bowls often cost their schools more to attend than they generate in revenue.

The bigger ones usually do too.
quote:

A 20K stadium is just a waste of space and donor money that won't do anything more than obligate them to throw more good money after bad in the future. They should completely change course and move to a lower division, stop pretending they are more like LSU than Williams and readjust their approach to their athletics.


They aren't competing with SMU not LSU, that's why they built a similar stadium.
Posted by lsu480
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
92876 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 1:21 am to
quote:

Tulane's Giving Itself A HUGE disadvantage In Yulman Stadium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is how I would have worded the subject in case anyone was wondering how this thread could have been improved.
Posted by Overbrook
Member since May 2013
6087 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 1:57 am to
quote:


They (Tulane) presently have a completely stupid and inadequate situation in full blown retard mode going on at Tulane. A 20K stadium is just a waste of space and donor money that won't do anything more than obligate them to throw more good money after bad in the future. They should completely change course and move to a lower division, stop pretending they are more like LSU than Williams and readjust their approach to their athletics.

Ridiculous.
What they are trying to do is play competitive ball - like all but 20 teams in the NCAA are trying to do. They aren't trying to be like LSU and they haven't since WWII. Their trying to be like 80% of the schools who play ball and meet their academic mission.
As for the stadium, at the current price points at which they are able to sell the seats, it is going to bring in more money than many 35K stadiums. They aren't filling stands with 10K students and another 5k $10 escort tickets.
No they aren't going to compete for national titles - just like all but about 20 other teams.
Regardless, TU is a private school using its own money.

As for basketball, they have to recruit nationally; heck, LSU has to recruit nationally. There's no culture in this state for LSU basketball like there is for football. And the level of talent isn't here.
This post was edited on 8/9/14 at 2:05 am
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
36110 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 4:37 am to
quote:


Your definition of relevance is unobtainable by most football programs.


EXACTLY! Why so many schools waste millions at this point in the game is beyond me. I understand there are often factors like history but some schools like Yale and Princeton had far greater histories years ago and still recognized where their priorities lay and where an appropriate amount of investment would be exceeded.

This post was edited on 8/9/14 at 4:40 am
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
36110 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 4:42 am to
quote:

What they are trying to do is play competitive ball



exactly what they should be doing. in a lower division. with other schools with similar mission statements and limitations.

I think majority of midmajors should get out of the top division of football because the inflation of costs is getting more and more out of hand - but for a school like Tulane I think the choice is even more obvious. Emulate a Princeton, not a SMU
Posted by ForkEmDemons
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since May 2014
2235 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 6:23 am to
quote:

exactly what they should be doing. in a lower division. with other schools with similar mission statements and limitations.



They are. Tulane has every right and the means to compete with school in the AAC. The stadium they built is a very nice mid major stadium that will easily help them with recruiting.

Tulane has done a very good job trying to revitalize their program. Hired an energetic and capable coach and built a very nice facility.

Will take time, but they are on the right track. No reason Tulane can't compete with UCONN, SMU, Houston or anyone else in the AAC.

From what I have seen Tulane understands very well where they are in the college football world and have made changes to compete at that level. No reason why they should move down.

If we use your reasoning the only schools that should compete at the D1 level would be limited to 20 schools, which would make college football extinct.
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
36110 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 7:21 am to
quote:


If we use your reasoning the only schools that should compete at the D1 level would be limited to 20 schools



If you use my logic the only schools that should compete at the D1 level should be somewhere between 40 and 60 odd schools. Those schools are in the major conferences (PAC, Big 10, SEC, ACC, Big 12, or major independent/partial ACC Notre Dame) with more substantial revenues.

This is what is in the process of happening right now anyway. Their revenues have skyrocketed over the last 20 years (esp the SEC and Big 10). Their extra revenues in turn have led to the stadium expansions, facility improvements, increases in coaches salaries etc which further separate those schools from the "have nots" we call midmajors.
Posted by ForkEmDemons
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since May 2014
2235 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 7:53 am to
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you to an extent.

With that said I think there is a place for the mid major to be in the same division as the power conferences.

There is little difference between the Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Miss. State, Wake Forest, Indiana football programs and schools like UCONN, Central Florida, Cincinnati, SMU and Tulane.

They won't be able to knock off the top 20 programs on a yearly basis but occasionally those teams will have a great year and be able to compete with those teams. Teams like 2008 Utah, 2007 Boise State, 1998 Tulane, 2004 Louisville, 1999 Marshall, 2003 Miami (OH).

There is a place for these schools and as long as they are able to adapt to the changing college football landscape, which Tulane is currently doing, they can co-exist with and supplement the power conferences.
Posted by Nawlinsboyinbossier
Bossier City
Member since Feb 2014
663 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 8:00 am to
Even with getting the leftover talent in this state, Tulane should be a 7 win team every year. Playing in the dome gives them a recruiting advantage over a Southern Miss, ULL or McNeese. I also believe that they should beg , borrow or steal to play LSU every year. Playing the Tigers guarantees at least a top 15 opponent and big game atmosphere every year. Couple this with playing in an NFL stadium that a Bama or Ole Miss would visit, both fan bases love NO, and you may sway some athletes in their direction.
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
36110 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 8:21 am to
quote:


With that said I think there is a place for the mid major to be in the same division as the power conferences.



To me whether they are in a lower division or if they are in the same division but come to terms with the differences in their limitations probably doesn't matter very much. The new playoff system is unlikely to let in a midmajor candidate because there are going to be five major conference champs and 1-2 deserving at larges who will get more favorable consideration IMO.

There have been some fun and even strong midmajors who deserved credit in recent years like the Utah, TCU, and Boise programs in the last decade. If there had been a four team playoff there were probably two years where my sense of fairness would have led me to advocate for one of them to be included rather than a second representative from a power conference or a flawed conference champ... but I personally doubt that would have happened and with the exception of a very strong Utah team I think most of the rest of them would have been disposed of immediately anyway (sorry Boise).

Anyway, you should expect push-back when it comes to some of those BCS schools you mention. Schools like Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and MSU are now flush with cash and investing more heavily on top of recruiting better than any of the midmajors for a very long time. They have solid coaches in place and have more talented rosters than people outside of the SEC are likely to realize. Mississippi State is probably regarded as a bad team by teams outside of the SEC but when they play well regarded teams from other conference they have fared very well under DM. Anyway, the teams at the bottom of a conference in a given year aren't the point because they aren't in consideration for a playoff, conference championship, and certainly not a national championship.

IMO you are stuck on the outliers who are midmajors as being the point. At least when it comes to discussing a Tulane type program discussing the few outliers really isn't the point. I'm more interested in what is good for a program like Tulane (and especially Tulane since I have personal connections to the school). What is good for a Tulane is to stop hemorrhaging money on football and slash football expenses to match what should reasonably be expected to be revenue generated. That most likely means you have to drop down to a lower division where a 20K stadium makes sense.
Posted by ForkEmDemons
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since May 2014
2235 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:23 am to
quote:

What is good for a Tulane is to stop hemorrhaging money


From what I have seen the revenue from this stadium (tickets, TAF donations, luxury boxes, parking) in combination with TV revenue from the AAC should allow Tulane to turn a nice profit.
Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
47548 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:30 am to
I'll just say with the recent events, i dont think college football is going to change very much. It is not in the P5's interests to drive away the midmajor conferences completely, as their home games and rent a wins are crucial to the records and bottom lines.

I do think if there is a new landscape, it will be the choice of teams to compete in it or not. If UCF or another midmajor wants to follow the big boy's rules, they'll have no choice but to let them. People will still root for the midmajors and watch them on tv...
Posted by Ralph_Wiggum
Sugarland
Member since Jul 2005
10666 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:35 am to
I am not a Tulane fan but cut them slack. If they were in the MAC they would have one of the top facilities including the stadium. They are in a conference that is appropriate for them and the stadium is right now the second best stadium in the state behind Tiger Stadium. If you're not getting a shot at the SEC or Big Ten you'd love to play at Tulane over LaTech or USL or NLU.

If they get 7-8 wins a season most years and get 20,000 in the stand it will be a success. Heck I'm wiling to bet that a 8-1 Tulane playing USL at home out-draws a 4-4 Miami FL playing Wake Forest.
Posted by Ralph_Wiggum
Sugarland
Member since Jul 2005
10666 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:36 am to
quote:

I'll just say with the recent events, i dont think college football is going to change very much. It is not in the P5's interests to drive away the midmajor conferences completely, as their home games and rent a wins are crucial to the records and bottom lines.


Not anymore. With most conferences going to 9 or 10 games in a 12 game season the other two games will home and homes with other P5 conferences since there is a playoffs that will slowly expand to about 8 teams.
Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
47548 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:47 am to
What conference is going to 10 games? Playing smaller teams will be crucial bc the Miss States and the Wake Forests of the world use them to get to .500 and minor bowls...
Posted by ForkEmDemons
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since May 2014
2235 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:48 am to
quote:

Not anymore. With most conferences going to 9 or 10 games in a 12 game season the other two games will home and homes with other P5 conferences since there is a playoffs that will slowly expand to about 8 teams.


You may see less OOC games with mid-majors but you will never see a complete elimination of those games.

For instance most mid majors have no problem going to Tiger Stadium with no return date. Even with the occasional road trip to a mid major most or done with a 2 home/ 1 away type deal. Southern Miss went to Nebraska twice without a home game.

Most P5 schools will not play another school without it being home/away or neutral site. If LSU stopped playing mid-majors you would decrease the number of home games from 8 to 7 or 6 (or less). That is a significant loss of revenue that most school will not be willing to take.

On top of that there are plenty of 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 teams that have records severely propped up by weaker competition. Sure fans want to see better teams in their stadiums, but many would stop supporting teams if they started going 4-8, 5-7 or 6-6 every year, which is what would happen with a P5 only schedule.

Playing only P5 schools is a wonderful pipe dream but one that really isn't all that feasible.
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
36110 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:56 am to
quote:


I do think if there is a new landscape, it will be the choice of teams to compete in it or not. If UCF or another midmajor wants to follow the big boy's rules, they'll have no choice but to let them.


Boise would probably disagree. They obviously want a seat at the big boys table but they don't bring in the revenue to get an invitation even if they've had a very impressive record over the last decade.

quote:

People will still root for the midmajors and watch them on tv...


Alumni of particular schools will obviously retain their allegiances but generally speaking their ratings are not competitive. People love to say they love underdogs but they don't actually watch them in the same numbers as the better known teams.
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58058 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 10:05 am to
quote:

. Playing in the dome gives them a recruiting advantage over a Southern Miss, ULL or McNeese




no it does not

get it through your skull brah
Posted by Ralph_Wiggum
Sugarland
Member since Jul 2005
10666 posts
Posted on 8/9/14 at 10:29 am to
quote:

What conference is going to 10 games? Playing smaller teams will be crucial bc the Miss States and the Wake Forests of the world use them to get to .500 and minor bowls...


Big Ten and Pac Ten are up to 9 and there's talk about 10 so they all get five home and five road. The SEC will most likely play more conference games. The TV money demands it and yes attendance can be an issue. People don't want to pay big money for games against USL. The playoffs are coming.

The committee that selects teams will reward schools with harder schedules. Teams like USL won't be able to demand one home game for two road games against schools like Wake Forrest and Indiana since they will have more conference games.
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