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Message
re: That stupid Will Smith movie attacking the NFL - "concussion"
Posted on 12/13/15 at 2:53 pm to shel311
Posted on 12/13/15 at 2:53 pm to shel311
quote:
The NFL had a moral obligation here,
can you tell me what other experimental science that is being published right now (that will become common in 10-20 years) that has a relationship to football that the NFL should be forcing upon its players?
1
Posted on 12/13/15 at 2:54 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:it sure sounds like he's saying it's morally wrong. And who would even disagree with that? Makes no sense to take exception to that.
so you are saying certain people are incapable of making their own decisions
Posted on 12/13/15 at 2:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:No, that would be changing the subject.
can you tell me what other experimental science that is being published right now (that will become common in 10-20 years) that has a relationship to football that the NFL should be forcing upon its players?
You're claiming it was public info but now you seem to be backtracking. Did the NFL access public info that showed something or not?
Posted on 12/13/15 at 2:56 pm to shel311
quote:
it sure sounds like he's saying it's morally wrong
it's only morally wrong if you believe that some people are incapable of making their own decisions
quote:
And who would even disagree with that?
disagree with what, exactly? your assessment that this is a moral question or that we should allow certain people to back out of agreements when they are aware of hindsight biases, because they made the wrong choice?
Posted on 12/13/15 at 2:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:You're acting like if something has publicly shared info that EVERYONE should automatically know about it. Fwiw, your argument isn't logical in the least.
it's only morally wrong if you believe that some people are incapable of making their own decisions
quote:
Back out of what agreement? I have no idea what you're talking about. I've never said anything like that, not sure how you turned that into "my assessment"
This post was edited on 12/13/15 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:02 pm to shel311
quote:
You're acting like if something has publicly shared info that EVERYONE should automatically know about it.
no i'm not. that's not in response to the situation i was replying to in this discussion thread
with respect to the NFL and its CBA, the NFLPA had a duty to know of this, though
quote:
Back out of what agreement?
uh, the hypothetical one i was replying to
if an employer went to its already underpaid employees and told them that they will get a $1,000 Christmas bonus if they agree to give up their health insurance, wouldn't a lot of short-sighted people take that deal? I know the response is that that's why the rich are rich and the poor are poor. But that seems shady to me to make an offer like that in the first place.
but with respect to the NFL, the successive CBAs the players agreed to over the past 3 decades or so
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:03 pm to shel311
quote:
No, that would be changing the subject.
yes b/c we're examining the scenario without a hindsight bias. it's easy to look back and say what we should have done
see how difficult it is in real time?
quote:
You're claiming it was public info but now you seem to be backtracking
not at all
i'm displaying your reliance on the hindsight bias
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
Did the NFL have knowledge, public or not, that they did not share with the players? Simple yes or no.
If yes, not sharing was immoral, not sure why you'd argue otherwise.
If not, that contradicts what you've said about public info.
If yes, not sharing was immoral, not sure why you'd argue otherwise.
If not, that contradicts what you've said about public info.
This post was edited on 12/13/15 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:08 pm to Mohican
quote:
Do you think Troy Aikmen regrets taking all those blindside hits if it meant not being in the position he is today? That guy took more concussive-like hits than anybody I've ever seen.
Ask him again in 15 years.
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:11 pm to shel311
quote:
Did the NFL have knowledge, public or not, that they did not share with the players? Simple yes or no.
i don't think they revealed every piece of information they had
quote:
If yes, not sharing was immoral, not sure why you'd argue otherwise.
so negotiating every CBA is now immoral? every CBA involves issues of player safety. negotiation implies imperfect information on both sides
quote:
If not, that contradicts what you've said about public info.
i don't think i've made a "moral" argument, especially regarding publicly available information
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:You certainly have inferred for years on here that the NFL knew info, public info, and did not share it.
i don't think they revealed every piece of information they had
quote:Is the NFL intentionally withholding information that could expose players to health issues? If yes, yes. If no, no.
so negotiating every CBA is now immoral?
I feel like your legal background is getting in the way of something as simple as this IMO.
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:15 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
so you are saying certain people are incapable of making their own decisions
*looks at facebook feed*
Yes. That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:17 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Ask him again in 15 years.
It would have started affecting him by now.....
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:19 pm to shel311
quote:
You certainly have inferred for years on here that the NFL knew info, public info, and did not share it.
no i have said the information was in the public domain and wasn't hidden or concealed by the NFL, as is reported
you cannot "cover up" publicly available information
quote:
Is the NFL intentionally withholding information that could expose players to health issues? If yes, yes
well that's your standard now
and it's absurd, for the record
quote:
I feel like your legal background is getting in the way of something as simple as this IMO.
this has nothing to do with my "legal background"
this is about creating a narrative that is emotionally-driven, absurd, and purposefully ignores facts to make its point
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Sharing info about player health and potential long term risks to maybe save some money or something is absurd, got it!!!
well that's your standard now
and it's absurd, for the record
This post was edited on 12/13/15 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:22 pm to shel311
quote:
shel311
Why don't you two just call each other............... GEEZ................
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:23 pm to dukke v
Sorry for message boarding on a message board!!!
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:23 pm to shel311
quote:
Sharing info about player health and potential long term risks to maybe save some money or something is absurd,
when it's an area of negotiation between 2 parties and things like costs are at issue? yes
every part of the CBA involves risks and potential rewards with costs associated with every part. it's not a moral argument, especially since if player health re: concussions was that valuable of an issue, teh NFLPA would have given up something to ensure it years ago
you're basically saying the entire CBA process is immoral. does that sound reasonable?
Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:26 pm to shel311
quote:
Sorry for message boarding on a message board!!!
You two are giving ME a concussion......Posted on 12/13/15 at 3:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Of course, that's the entire premise of a CBA.
every part of the CBA involves risks and potential rewards with costs associated with every part.
quote:W
it's not a moral argument, especially since if player health re: concussions was that valuable of an issue, teh NFLPA would have given up something to ensure it years ago
T
F
If health is concerned, it's 100% a moral argument. AGAIN, no clue how you'd argue otherwise. It's just not any bit logical. Knowingly leaving players at risk to gain money or something else is pretty much textbook quite the moral issue.
Oh...and again with the NFLPA stuff, i've already addressed that is being mutually exclusive and irrelevant to whether this was moral or not, not sure why you continue to bring it up, it doesn't refute anything I've said.
quote:You're the Mother of all straw man builders, it's truly amazing. Probably the 3rd time you've claimed I'm saying something that is nowhere remotely near what I'm saying, not even close.
you're basically saying the entire CBA process is immoral. does that sound reasonable?
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