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re: Terry Bradshaw is the GOAT at QB
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:09 pm to ItsThatDude12
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:09 pm to ItsThatDude12
quote:
You can either base greatness off of championships or not. Can't pick and choose when it's suitable.
0
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:10 pm to ItsThatDude12
quote:
The point is before yesterdays game he was argubly the GOAT and people would crown him after the BRONCOS won, not after a miserable came he's not even in the conversation.
So his bad performance in the game shouldn't matter?
Some (not me) were willing to crown him if he won another Super Bowl and played well. He didn't play well. So why shouldn't his legacy be penalized for not playing well?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:12 pm to ItsThatDude12
This is my problem with Manning:
In the biggest games, the playoffs, he has played at a poor level, especially by his standards.
He is the greatest regular season quarterback of all time. It's not even a debate for me. However, he has come up so small in the biggest moments. Why is that? How can you play so great in the regular season, but do a 180 in the post season.
He has been to the playoffs numerous times. He's had a top seed numerous times. Why has he not done more? I don't think Championships should be the deciding factor, at all, but they should, along with post season play, be a part of the discussion. How does this quarterback play when he is on the biggest stage?
In the biggest games, the playoffs, he has played at a poor level, especially by his standards.
He is the greatest regular season quarterback of all time. It's not even a debate for me. However, he has come up so small in the biggest moments. Why is that? How can you play so great in the regular season, but do a 180 in the post season.
He has been to the playoffs numerous times. He's had a top seed numerous times. Why has he not done more? I don't think Championships should be the deciding factor, at all, but they should, along with post season play, be a part of the discussion. How does this quarterback play when he is on the biggest stage?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:14 pm to ItsThatDude12
quote:
One man can't win it all at anything.
Golf? Boxing? Tennis?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:14 pm to ItsThatDude12
quote:
The point is before yesterdays game he was argubly the GOAT and people would crown him after the BRONCOS won, now after a miserable game he's not even in the conversation.
He was already a SuperBowl Mvp.
That's fair no matter what side of the coin you take.
When you're talking about the status of being the GOAT, relatively minor events have importance because the ability to distinguish between potential candidates becomes so particular.
Manning could have thrown 10 INTs last night and he would still be a much better QB than Carson Palmer but his performance is fair game to critique if you want to compare him to Montana, especially considering the whole "played in different eras" thing.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:16 pm to Walking the Earth
There is no pocket passer that couldve beat Seattle yesterday given the way the game went.
NONE, with a cluttered pocket and the pass rush + secondary he faced no QB was beating that Seahawks D.
NONE, with a cluttered pocket and the pass rush + secondary he faced no QB was beating that Seahawks D.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:17 pm to ItsThatDude12
quote:
NONE, with a cluttered pocket and the pass rush + secondary he faced no QB was beating that Seahawks D.
What about a pocket passer with a better offensive line?
Seattle barely blitzed yesterday.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:19 pm to Nonetheless
quote:
So his bad performance in the game shouldn't matter?
Some (not me) were willing to crown him if he won another Super Bowl and played well. He didn't play well. So why shouldn't his legacy be penalized for not playing well?
By any reasonable measures he was crowned before the playoffs started
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:20 pm to Nonetheless
The point is it takes more than a QB to win it all. Seattles defense proved that, so when you're talking about greats 1 or 2 games (bc thats all they are) vs some of the best TEAMS in current memory shouldn't be a factor.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:20 pm to VerlanderBEAST
I know you're serious, but still... 
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:21 pm to ItsThatDude12
quote:
There is no pocket passer that couldve beat Seattle yesterday given the way the game went.
NONE, with a cluttered pocket and the pass rush + secondary he faced no QB was beating that Seahawks D.
Barring an ability to tunnel into an alternate universe, I can neither prove nor disprove that.
History isn't always fair sometimes and, ultimately, does it really matter if Manning is the consensus #2 or #3 all time NFL QB, instead of #1, should that happen? Just being a credible member of that conversation is more than good enough.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:26 pm to ItsThatDude12
quote:
No, championships are the product of great teams imo
I agree with this... Here is my debate on Elway vs. Montana.
I don't think Montana could have took those three Denver teams to the SBs the Elway did.. However I think Elway would have won all 4 sbs that Montana won in the 80's....
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:30 pm to Walking the Earth
It's the major difference in what he does every regular season compared to the post season.
If he plays well in the post season, regardless of wins or losses, people wouldn't bother with this so much. He has played poor football in the post season. That is why he receives criticism.
The game last night wasn't all on him. Not even close. He didn't allow the kick return. Many plays weren't on him. You have to look at his overall body of work in the post season though. I still believe he is one of the best to ever play, and him having only one Superbowl title doesn't change that. It just baffles me that his level of plays goes down substantially in the post season.
If he plays well in the post season, regardless of wins or losses, people wouldn't bother with this so much. He has played poor football in the post season. That is why he receives criticism.
The game last night wasn't all on him. Not even close. He didn't allow the kick return. Many plays weren't on him. You have to look at his overall body of work in the post season though. I still believe he is one of the best to ever play, and him having only one Superbowl title doesn't change that. It just baffles me that his level of plays goes down substantially in the post season.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:30 pm to ItsThatDude12
What if there's a great QB who consistently all throughout his career performs poorly in big games? Are we not allowed to hold that against him?
That's all anyone is doing.
That's all anyone is doing.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:37 pm to genro
The point is Denvers D hadn't been good all year like bottom tier especially vs the pass.
You got peyton playing in a weak division and putting up video game numbers. If Peyton played in the NFC West no way he comes near 55 Td's.
Hawks allowed 18 TD's through the air all year. Last night was a testament to that and not mannings career.
You got peyton playing in a weak division and putting up video game numbers. If Peyton played in the NFC West no way he comes near 55 Td's.
Hawks allowed 18 TD's through the air all year. Last night was a testament to that and not mannings career.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:39 pm to ItsThatDude12
quote:
You got peyton playing in a weak division and putting up video game numbers. If Peyton played in the NFC West no way he comes near 55 Td's. Hawks allowed 18 TD's through the air all year.
Last night was a testament to that and not mannings career.
This makes no sense whatsoever. What if Manning played on a team in the NFC west? His stats would suffer, no? So how was last night not a testament to his career?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:39 pm to ItsThatDude12
Seattles is great, but Peyton played poorly in a big game. He's done that a lot, in fact more than anyone ever.
So yeah, last night was another huge nail in the "Peyton is a choke artist" coffin. That's the way it actually is. I'm sorry you don't like that. But it's fact.
So yeah, last night was another huge nail in the "Peyton is a choke artist" coffin. That's the way it actually is. I'm sorry you don't like that. But it's fact.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:44 pm to genro
He prob had two bad plays I guess. If you count someome hitting his arm on the pick 6.
The pick that was over julius's head was on him.
I just don't believe if you swap manning with any of the other greats. Brady, Favre, Elway.....contemporary....things would be different.
The pick that was over julius's head was on him.
I just don't believe if you swap manning with any of the other greats. Brady, Favre, Elway.....contemporary....things would be different.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 5:47 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:45 pm to Nonetheless
Thats what I was saying. For instance if Peyton played on the Rams he wouldn't have came close to the year he had. Seahawks D exposed that. The Defense is just that damn good.
Arizona twice, St. Louis, San Fran, and Seattle. He doesn't break records bc that division plays defense.
Arizona twice, St. Louis, San Fran, and Seattle. He doesn't break records bc that division plays defense.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:51 pm to ItsThatDude12
Bradshaw is underrated IMO. His passer rating in those four Super Bowls was >100 in all of them for a 112.8 average, which was more than 40 points greater than his career regular season average of 70.9. A lot of folks short-change him because of all the talent surrounding him, but Pittsburgh won those Super Bowls because of him, not in spite of him. If he had played in one of the big media markets, he would have likely been given a catchy nickname like Mr. January.
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