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Started By
Message
re: Stockton vs. Isiah
Posted on 1/14/16 at 10:57 am to FightinTigersDammit
Posted on 1/14/16 at 10:57 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
That is going to stand for a looooong time.
The way the NBA is going, I don't ever expect it to be broken.
Stockton is a top 10 player all time, and the greatest PG ever.
0
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:01 am to FightinTigersDammit
FWIW, Magic Johnson said Thomas should have been ranked above Stockton and Curry
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:03 am to WB504
quote:
Magic Johnson said Thomas should have been ranked above Stockton
Well, Stockton never kissed Magic.
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:10 am to FightinTigersDammit
Why don't we ask Michael Jordan who he thought was better?
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:11 am to FightinTigersDammit
Thomas was better than Stockton, but we're talking about two all-time greats who knew how to run the point and defend. But if you had to pick one of the two, you take Isiah Thomas because he was clearly the more talented overall player.
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:15 am to Choupique19
quote:
Why don't we ask Michael Jordan who he thought was better?
He's too busy killing his liver and ostracizing his family.
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:20 am to sms151t
quote:
My other reason for taking Thomas may be that Stockton was dirty. He was a great cheap shot artist.
There's a difference between always playing hard, and trying to hurt someone.
Show me a video of Stockton giving a cheap shot.
Here's a nice video of the many cheap shots by Isiah
LINK
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:20 am to 5thTiger
quote:
Stockton is the greatest point guard ever. Period. One of the most underrated players because he never won a title, mostly because of Jordan, the GOAT.
Isiah won two titles, defeating Jordan's Bulls on the way to winning both
quote:
Assists record by OVER 3700. He literally had 25% more than the 2nd best assist total EVER. That is INSANE
This is true. Point for Stockton
quote:
Steals record by 500. Incredible.
Yeah, this was more about him playing for a long more than anything. If you look at his steals per game he's in the back half of the Top 10. Also steals are an unreliable measure of defensive prowess. The guy who is tied with Stockton 8th place all time in steals per game is the famously defense averse Allen Iverson.
quote:
Only missed 22 games in a 19 year career
This is impressive but he wasn't even a point guard in half of those years. In 19 years he made 10 All Star teams, in 12 years Isiah made 11.
quote:
No doubt in my mind, greatest PG ever.
I'm going to assume you're for some reason classifying Magic at another position
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:22 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
Pretty good idea to pass it to the 2nd leading scorer in history. Steven A. gonna Steven A.
Also might be a pretty good reason he was #2 in scoring history.
Imagine Fitz numbers had he been drafted by, say, the Colts.
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:24 am to 5thTiger
quote:
tockton was never dirty by the way. Dude played hard, but always within the rule
Is there a gif of the 1999 playoffs where Stockton pinned jwill's arm for like 5 seconds and they called a foul on jwill?
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:31 am to SabiDojo
quote:
He's too busy ostracizing his liver and killing his family.
FIFY
(according to some angry, little guys)
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:34 am to RileyTime
It could be argued that Malone would not have been the second leading scorer all time without Stockton. That argument works both ways.
People will probably be inclined to say Thomas in this thread just because they probably saw more of him. Jazz games were not on as much as Pistons. I would select Stockton because he was a traditional pass first shoot next point guard who was more durable and had better character. Stockton's performance against Houston in the last game of the series to get the Jazz to the Finals was as impressive as any of Thomas' including a series ending three.
People will probably be inclined to say Thomas in this thread just because they probably saw more of him. Jazz games were not on as much as Pistons. I would select Stockton because he was a traditional pass first shoot next point guard who was more durable and had better character. Stockton's performance against Houston in the last game of the series to get the Jazz to the Finals was as impressive as any of Thomas' including a series ending three.
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:37 am to longwayfromLA
quote:
I'm going to assume you're for some reason classifying Magic at another position
A tall person bring the ball up the court does not make a point guard. He was a pre-Lebron. Remember when people were trying to claim Lebron was a PG? I don't think anyone today would call lebron a PG, they are a very similar type of player to me.
I guess the most accurate term would be point foward....so your SF/PF range.
Stockton had a much tougher draw than Isaiah, playing in a tougher West. Isaiah's two championships came at the only time they could be won. 1989-1990. Magic and Bird were on the way out...and Michael was on the way in, but hadn't figured out how to win in the East (0 championships at those points). Stockton's Finals appearances came against the greatest NBA teams ever.
Durability is an overlooked aspect. If you don't take in career longevity/injuries, people like Sam Bowie could be considered among the GOAT's. But it does figure in.
All-time records are a testament to a players skill AND durability. You have to have both.
quote:
This is impressive but he wasn't even a point guard in half of those years.
I don't know where your getting that from?
This post was edited on 1/14/16 at 11:39 am
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:39 am to 5thTiger
Stockton was not the best PG in history, that goes to Robertson or Magic.
Stockton was the best Point of the 90's though. I think Payton would be second.
Stockton was the best Point of the 90's though. I think Payton would be second.
This post was edited on 1/14/16 at 11:41 am
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:42 am to FightinTigersDammit
1st of all Greenberg doesn't know crap about anything but the jets. But he has a point. I would take Thomas over Stockton myself. Stockton was real good, but Thomas was great. IMO he is three behind magic and Oscar.
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:43 am to 5thTiger
quote:
Stockton is the greatest point guard ever.
I'll take Magic Johnson all day, every day over John Stockton or any other point guard in the history of basketball for that matter
This post was edited on 1/14/16 at 11:47 am
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:44 am to 5thTiger
I am confused...is someone trying to say Thomas or Stockton were not PG for half their career? That may border on Boom silliness.
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:45 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
Stockton being a dirty player is always thrown out there. I don't buy it. I never saw him as any worse than anyone else. Damn few coaches, or players, for that matter, wouldn't love to have Stockton on their team.
Correct. It's a preposterous myth. Because a 6 footer in a game of much taller people sets hard picks he's "dirty". Please.
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:45 am to sms151t
Stockton is the best traditional point guard to ever play the game. Oscar, Magic, and to a certain extent Thomas were a different breed of player all together that played the position differently. They looked to score more and were better at scoring for sure.
Posted on 1/14/16 at 11:46 am to 5thTiger
quote:
Stockton is the greatest point guard ever. Period. One of the most underrated players because he never won a title, mostly because of Jordan, the GOAT.
Assists record by OVER 3700. He literally had 25% more than the 2nd best assist total EVER. That is INSANE.
Steals record by 500. Incredible.
AND he is #41 on all time scoring lists-52% FG shooter.
Only missed 22 games in a 19 year career, 18 of which came in one season. Dude was durable and a warrior. Averaged a double double (13.1ppg/10.5apg)
Above all that, dude was a great person. Never any trouble. Great role model. Used his money to give back.
No doubt in my mind, greatest PG ever.
All of this. Would only add the slight asterisk that his assist margin is so high because Magic bowed out early due to the AIDS.
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