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Started By
Message
re: Offseason long STL thread
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:20 am to Wishnitwas1998
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:20 am to Wishnitwas1998
Killz
Wishin
I stressed the word "yet". I just feel like he needs to prove he can be consistent before he commands top dollar.
Don't get me wrong...I think he'll command top dollar after this season, but that doesn't necessarily justify it.
Atlanta was happy to let him go because he wasn't producing. In STL he started the season off very disappointing but then kicked it into gear around the All Star Break. Since then he's been one of the better players on the team.
As a fan, I just need to see another great season from him before I proclaim him the 2nd coming of Christ.
Fwiw, do I think Holliday earned and justified his contract? No.
It is what it is. I think what I think.
quote:
Hell, I don't think he's proven himself to be a $50 million player...yet.
Wishin
quote:
WUT? LOL
I stressed the word "yet". I just feel like he needs to prove he can be consistent before he commands top dollar.
Don't get me wrong...I think he'll command top dollar after this season, but that doesn't necessarily justify it.
Atlanta was happy to let him go because he wasn't producing. In STL he started the season off very disappointing but then kicked it into gear around the All Star Break. Since then he's been one of the better players on the team.
As a fan, I just need to see another great season from him before I proclaim him the 2nd coming of Christ.
Fwiw, do I think Holliday earned and justified his contract? No.
It is what it is. I think what I think.
1
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:21 am to kilo
quote:
It sure seems like he is staying but you never know.
I agree but all that tends to take a backseat when $$$ starts getting involved, if he stays it's likely he will have to at some sort of a discount
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:22 am to UltimateHog
Oh and I also hope Matheny learns how to manage a bullpen over the course of a season before next season starts. The amount of innings he allowed Siegrist and Maness to rack up is literally one of the dumbest things I've seen in a long time as a Cards fan.
We'll be lucky if one of them doesn't get lost to an injury very soon.
We'll be lucky if one of them doesn't get lost to an injury very soon.
This post was edited on 10/14/15 at 10:23 am
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:22 am to UltimateHog
quote:
How does that even exist?
Agreed, strange
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:23 am to mizzoukills
I guess it depends on what you meant by "$50 million" if you meant $50 mil a year then of course he hasn't earned it but a 4-5 year contract worth $50 million total? SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:24 am to UltimateHog
I like Mike a lot but many of his decisions puzzle me, plus he gets a hard on for guys like Jay and Choate and WILL NOT let go of it
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:25 am to Wishnitwas1998
quote:
I agree but all that tends to take a backseat when $$$ starts getting involved, if he stays it's likely he will have to at some sort of a discount
I no longer allow myself to ponder if a star player will stay or not. More often than not, money wins at the end of the day.
Legacy is a thing of the past. Most players don't care about legacy anymore. They just want the next largest contract. Greed beats loyalty.
Players like Yadi are a thing of the past. Yadi truly loves STL and I believe he'll remain with the club in some capacity after he retires.
More and more, star players are following in Pujols' footsteps and choosing top dollar over legacy.
This post was edited on 10/14/15 at 10:35 am
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:26 am to UltimateHog
local sports radio today is pretty good. They are holding Matheny accountable for a bunch of things he mismanaged this series and this year.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:27 am to kilo
quote:
local sports radio today is pretty good. They are holding Matheny accountable for a bunch of things he mismanaged this series and this year.
As they should, he's gotten a pass the last few years, he's out of passes.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:29 am to Wishnitwas1998
quote:
I like Mike a lot but many of his decisions puzzle me, plus he gets a hard on for guys like Jay and Choate and WILL NOT let go of it
Let's not forget that Mike is still a very young manager who will make mistakes. He's learning on the job.
His potential is great, especially considering that his teams have performed very well over the past 4 years.
Sure, I'd like a see another championship sooner than later.
But I think we need to be levelheaded and understand that we have a young and very talented manager who has tremendous potential and truly embraces the Cardinal Way.
I think that's very important. I believe Mike will figure it out. He's only been head coach for 4 years, folks.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:34 am to mizzoukills
quote:
I think that's very important. I believe Mike will figure it out. He's only been head coach for 4 years, folks.
This statement works if you replace the 4 with a 2.
No more excuses. He earns his keep or not on merit at this point.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:37 am to kilo
quote:
This statement works if you replace the 4 with a 2. No more excuses. He earns his keep or not on merit at this point.
Are you saying that he should've only been given 2 years to win a World Series as a first time head coach in MLB?
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:39 am to mizzoukills
quote:
Are you saying that he should've only been given 2 years to win a World Series as a first time head coach in MLB?
Did I say that killz?
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:50 am to mizzoukills
To your point, I think agents have had a huge negative inlluence on the whole "loyalty vs money" issue. Think of it this way, if you are Albert Pujols there really isn't a huge difference between $205 mil and $250 mil (you are stupid rich either way) but if you are his agent and earning let's just say 10% of it, that's a HUGE difference to the agent.
On top of that lets say you are one of these Dominican guys who probably came from nothing and whose agent may have been with them since they were 18 yo, that player is probably gonna be pretty loyal to his agent
On top of that lets say you are one of these Dominican guys who probably came from nothing and whose agent may have been with them since they were 18 yo, that player is probably gonna be pretty loyal to his agent
Posted on 10/14/15 at 10:55 am to Wishnitwas1998
I also think the players union puts a ridiculous amount of pressure on these guys to take the largest deals.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 11:01 am to kilo
quote:
Adams experiment for two years now. Im ready to see him go.
Big City to an actual big city?
Posted on 10/14/15 at 11:03 am to UltimateHog
quote:
amount of innings he allowed Siegrist and Maness
We always seem to have a couple guys in the pen who I have zero confidence in their ability to record an out. I always hear the Maness DP love. But I don't see it.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 11:04 am to Wishnitwas1998
quote:
To your point, I think agents have had a huge negative inlluence on the whole "loyalty vs money" issue. Think of it this way, if you are Albert Pujols there really isn't a huge difference between $205 mil and $250 mil (you are stupid rich either way) but if you are his agent and earning let's just say 10% of it, that's a HUGE difference to the agent.
Add in cost of living and California taxes, and he damn near didn't get that much of a raise.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 11:06 am to Wishnitwas1998
So glad I don't have to see Piscotty again this year. That dude is annoying lol.
He gave me the bubble poots all series.
He gave me the bubble poots all series.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 11:07 am to the808bass
Yea I mean there are a lot of specifics to the Pujols deal and every deal, but in general the agent and as was pointed out the union, applies a ton of pressure
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