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Posted on 3/11/11 at 6:43 pm to gthog61
quote:
anything that helps make goodell look bad is good
Ignorance at its finest. I don't personally like Goddell, but to say something like this is truly asinine when he has no blame in this matter. This is between the owners and players.
Posted on 3/11/11 at 7:53 pm to Puffoluffagus
After reading the NFL proposal summary I gotta say the players blew it.. 164 million dollar cap by 2014 wasn't enough? Ridiculous to take the step they've taken.
Posted on 3/11/11 at 8:47 pm to angryslugs
quote:
The players aren't asking for extra money. I know it was already said. Just wanted to say it again
Why in the heck do the the ESPN headlines read:
"How will they NFL and NFLPA divide the extra 9 Billion?"
I honestly haven't followed it that much, but it smells like greed is coming from the players Union, not the owners..all the while the players are screaming "the owners are greedy"....yeah, just look at the salaries the players make... come on now..and they always want millions more. At some point, the money tree has to have a cap
I mean, Owners OWN!!! Players play. Owners had to pony up the cash to buy the team, took all the risk. Players come and go
Players have a contract... Play your contract and shut up!!!!
Sorry, but I have had it with Unions...
Posted on 3/11/11 at 9:09 pm to tiger2012
quote:
tiger2012
Great post
Posted on 3/11/11 at 9:12 pm to ApexTiger
quote:
I honestly haven't followed it that much,
That seems obvious, IMHO.
It is NOT players striking for more money. It's the owners trying to lock out the players because they don't like the CBA they all signed a few years back when Tagliabu was still the commissioner and Gene Upshaw was head of the player's union.
The owners are the one who created this situation by opting out of the labor deal and stonewalling the players until a federal judge threw out their "strike insurance" clause in the league's TV contract that would have paid them even if no games were broadcast.
They're the ones trying to cram things down the players' throats like 2 extra regular season games each year and a change in the distribution of revenue that would heavily favor the owners.
The players would be happy with the CBA that the owners opted out of and don't see a compelling reason why they should accept a worse deal from the owners without proof that the teams really are losing money due to their football operations.
Posted on 3/11/11 at 9:36 pm to ApexTiger
the owners are hoping that the majority of fans are like you. You haven't been paying attention and automatically assume the players are being greedy. The owners are the ones trying to take money away from the players basically. Now they are trying to make the players look like the bad guy when the owners started all of this.
Posted on 3/11/11 at 9:57 pm to GamecockAlum
The owners cannot collude to keep player salaries down. To do so would violate antitrust laws.
The NFL owners do not compete with each other as businesses, they cooperate. So their dictating player salaries is by definition collusion and an antitrust violation. That is why the owners absolutely need to have a collective bargaining agreement with the players. And they can't get the players to agree to one that gives the players less than they were already receiving.
Take the NFL draft for instance. It has already been ruled an antitrust violation by the courts. It's continuance has only been because the players union permitted it as part of the collective bargaining agreement. If I was a rookie and there was not a CBA in place I'd sue for the right to be an unrestricted free agent. I'd willingly give up some salary for the opportunity to sign with a well managed team as opposed to a team run like the Bills or Bengals.
The NFL owners do not compete with each other as businesses, they cooperate. So their dictating player salaries is by definition collusion and an antitrust violation. That is why the owners absolutely need to have a collective bargaining agreement with the players. And they can't get the players to agree to one that gives the players less than they were already receiving.
Take the NFL draft for instance. It has already been ruled an antitrust violation by the courts. It's continuance has only been because the players union permitted it as part of the collective bargaining agreement. If I was a rookie and there was not a CBA in place I'd sue for the right to be an unrestricted free agent. I'd willingly give up some salary for the opportunity to sign with a well managed team as opposed to a team run like the Bills or Bengals.
Posted on 3/11/11 at 10:42 pm to nosaj56
I got an email from Roger Goodell saying what they offered was fair, should I believe him?
Posted on 3/11/11 at 10:43 pm to jacks40
quote:
Jerry Jones is always a bad guy
Dan Snyder too
Yeah, they are solid businessmen. Shame on them.
Posted on 3/11/11 at 11:19 pm to Buck Magnum
quote:
I got an email from Roger Goodell saying what they offered was fair, should I believe him?
It was a pretty damn good jump, one that could have lead to a deal being worked out.. The players were dead set on the squeeze and unfortunately they feel decertification was the way to go.
Posted on 3/12/11 at 12:15 am to ApexTiger
quote:
I honestly haven't followed it that much, but it smells like greed is coming from the players Union, not the owners..all the while the players are screaming "the owners are greedy"....yeah, just look at the salaries the players make... come on now..and they always want millions more. At some point, the money tree has to have a cap
I mean, Owners OWN!!! Players play. Owners had to pony up the cash to buy the team, took all the risk. Players come and go
Players have a contract... Play your contract and shut up!!!!
Sorry, but I have had it with Unions..
There is so much wrong here I don't even know where to begin.
You realize that unions in sports leagues are basically a necessity right? The leagues couldn't function without collective bargaining. They'd get hammered in anti-trust lawsuits yearly. Collective bargaining not only helps the players but protects the owners big time.
Maybe the owners should just "play their contract" and shut up like you say the players should (btw, the players are simply asking for reasons the owners want more money, they haven't asked for a dime more than they are getting currently).
Posted on 3/12/11 at 12:24 am to dukke v
quote:
You are missing to point of this. In THIS economy people are tired of guys who play a SPORT to be soo fricking greedy,
So if business was booming like never before and you boss came up to you and said "Hey uhhh this wasn't such a great year so im going to need you to take a pay cut, oh and you need to ramp up production along with that pay decrease" would you be ok with that?
Why are the players making millions greedy for not wanting to take a pay cut from the owners who won't back up their claims as to why they need to make more billions?
This post was edited on 3/12/11 at 1:03 am
Posted on 3/12/11 at 1:04 am to lsu6294
quote:
So if business was booming like never before and you boss came up to you and said "Hey uhhh this wasn't such a great year so im going to need you to take a pay cut, oh and you need to ramp up production along with that pay decrease" would you be ok with that?
If I was still making more after my pay cut than I could anywhere else, yeah I'd be ok with it.
Posted on 3/12/11 at 1:16 am to JG77056
quote:
If I was still making more after my pay cut than I could anywhere else, yeah I'd be ok with it.
That's BS and you know it.
Posted on 3/12/11 at 1:27 am to JG77056
quote:
If I was still making more after my pay cut than I could anywhere else, yeah I'd be ok with it.
Holy shite.
So if you knew you had a pretty good gig at your current job and you'd have to take a pay cut to go elsewhere you'd be cool with your boss walking in and saying you need to work a few more weekends and I'm cutting your pay you'd have no issues with this?
Especially if you knew the money would go to your boss who already makes 10x what you make?
GTFO.
Posted on 3/12/11 at 1:51 am to lsu6294
quote:
So if you knew you had a pretty good gig at your current job and you'd have to take a pay cut to go elsewhere you'd be cool with your boss walking in and saying you need to work a few more weekends and I'm cutting your pay you'd have no issues with this?
Would I like it? No. But would I be ok with it? Again, if it's still paying me way more than any other job I could get, yeah I'm gonna be ok with it. It happens to people in the real world all the time.
Hell it happened to me last year, and I wish they had just offered me a pay cut. I made a certain amount, boss offered me a lower amount and before I could accept he hired someone else at an even lower amount. That's how businesses work. It sucks, but not athletes have to deal with it all the time.
Posted on 3/12/11 at 6:52 am to JG77056
The owners have been talking about and planning a lockout since 2007.
The players negotiated in good faith, while the owners have not.
The players and owners are partners in this, but one side refuses to look at it that way.
You can't compare this to our jobs because most of us are not at a job where we agree to share revenue with our boss who is also our business partner.
The owners have assumed NO risk. The next time an owner sells an NFL team at a loss will be the first. Additionally, many of the didn't do a god damned thing to earn their money. Inheriting money is not earning it, guys. And the salary cap coupled with the fact that the owners take the first billion off the top of the revenues assures them thay they will profit.
For the majority of the players, they are not millionaires. When you deduct taxes and agent commission, and factor in that the average career is 3.4 years, some of these guys are lucky to take home a million for their career. So let's say that a guy takes home 300k after the stuff mentioned above, and he plays 4 years. He's made 1.2 million in football, and now has serious medical problems and can't get insured on his own because of his preexisting conditions. He has trouble finding a regular job, and when he does, he struggles because his post concussion syndrome makes it extremely difficult to look at a monitor for more than ten minutes at a time. Is that guy rich? Hell, is a guy who makes 50k per year for 24 years rich?
So the owners want the players to take less money, play more games, and not have health coverage in a sport with a 100% injury rate. All this so that instead of, say, a 10% profit margin, they can have a 15% margin.
The players negotiated in good faith, while the owners have not.
The players and owners are partners in this, but one side refuses to look at it that way.
You can't compare this to our jobs because most of us are not at a job where we agree to share revenue with our boss who is also our business partner.
The owners have assumed NO risk. The next time an owner sells an NFL team at a loss will be the first. Additionally, many of the didn't do a god damned thing to earn their money. Inheriting money is not earning it, guys. And the salary cap coupled with the fact that the owners take the first billion off the top of the revenues assures them thay they will profit.
For the majority of the players, they are not millionaires. When you deduct taxes and agent commission, and factor in that the average career is 3.4 years, some of these guys are lucky to take home a million for their career. So let's say that a guy takes home 300k after the stuff mentioned above, and he plays 4 years. He's made 1.2 million in football, and now has serious medical problems and can't get insured on his own because of his preexisting conditions. He has trouble finding a regular job, and when he does, he struggles because his post concussion syndrome makes it extremely difficult to look at a monitor for more than ten minutes at a time. Is that guy rich? Hell, is a guy who makes 50k per year for 24 years rich?
So the owners want the players to take less money, play more games, and not have health coverage in a sport with a 100% injury rate. All this so that instead of, say, a 10% profit margin, they can have a 15% margin.
Posted on 3/12/11 at 8:47 am to Sophandros
^ Winner
Posted on 3/12/11 at 11:54 am to Sophandros
quote:
He's made 1.2 million in football, and now has serious medical problems and can't get insured on his own because of his preexisting conditions.
Except the fact that the NFL has proposed creating a fund for the veteran players, which the owners will kickoff with $82 Million
Look at what the owners claim to have offered on Friday (from ESPN),
quote:
Also in the NFL's offer, according to the league:
• Maintaining the 16 regular-season games and four preseason games for at least two years, with any switch to 18 games down the road being negotiable.
• Instituting a rookie wage scale through which money saved would be paid to veterans and retired players.
• Creating new year-round health and safety rules.
• Establishing a fund for retired players, with $82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years.
• Financial disclosure of audited profitability information that is not even shared with the NFL clubs. That was proposed by the NFL this week, and rejected by the union, which began insisting in May 2009 for a complete look at the books of each of the 32 clubs.
All seems reasonable to me, but I do not play the game.
What I do not know, and I am not sure anyone outside the league and union know is what finacial information was provided and what was requested. Should the players have been able to determine the viability of the teams from the information provided?
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