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re: Lebron-where do you rank him on your GOAT list?
Posted on 6/19/13 at 7:46 pm to KPCrimson
Posted on 6/19/13 at 7:46 pm to KPCrimson
To answer the OP, I can only go on what he has accomplished to this date, without consideration of anything he might do in the future.
He's somewhere between 16 and 20 for me; he would be lower, based on raw statistics but has a few amazing things going for him that you can't put in any context and it not sound remarkable.
He's definitely not hard-capped at 16 for me either-- it's not like he's there unless he wins 4 more titles, scores 10K more points, and saves a baby from a burning building-- he can really move up.
He's somewhere between 16 and 20 for me; he would be lower, based on raw statistics but has a few amazing things going for him that you can't put in any context and it not sound remarkable.
He's definitely not hard-capped at 16 for me either-- it's not like he's there unless he wins 4 more titles, scores 10K more points, and saves a baby from a burning building-- he can really move up.
0
Posted on 6/19/13 at 7:47 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
are you forgetting the defensive 3 second rule? That didn't exist back then, bigs could guard the rim for as long as they want, essentially a zone defense.
That's just false. That was considered an illegal defense. You were given one warning then a T after.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 7:54 pm to GiveMeTheBigOne
Of players from my era
Jordan
Kobe
Magic
Isaiah/Bird
Lebron
Bron should have given Ray Allen a BJ after the game last night. Ray saved is arse.
I'm pulling for spurs but I believe game 7 will be a Miami victory by quite a few points. Hope I'm wrong.
Jordan
Kobe
Magic
Isaiah/Bird
Lebron
Bron should have given Ray Allen a BJ after the game last night. Ray saved is arse.
I'm pulling for spurs but I believe game 7 will be a Miami victory by quite a few points. Hope I'm wrong.
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 8:01 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 8:48 pm to GeauxWarrior12
quote:
That's just false. That was considered an illegal defense. You were given one warning then a T after.
no it's not false. You could "guard the ball"without guarding an opponent or you could guard a player within arms reach. Why do you think spacing is such a buzzword? Because defensive bigs can not camp out down low. You don't remember a lot of basketball.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 8:49 pm to GiveMeTheBigOne
Pick a number between 10 and 15
Posted on 6/19/13 at 8:57 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
or you could guard a player within arms reach.
that's today's rules
this article from 2001 is interesting in light of today's discussion
LINK
quote:
''I think it's a huge mistake,'' Miami Coach Pat Riley said last week. ''There's not going to be anybody able to drive.
quote:
''It would change the sport,'' said Tomjanovich, one of the most vocal opponents of the zone defense. ''We should create a situation where great players get a chance to excel. Zones neutralize great athletic ability. People want to see guys who can soar to the basket.''
Posted on 6/19/13 at 10:04 pm to Dr. Shultz
Lebron is already better than Kobe has ever been. People argue differing concepts in these threads. If we're talking about their level of play on the court and not worrying about the compilation of stats then Bron Bron surpassed Kobe some time ago
Posted on 6/19/13 at 10:09 pm to Dr. Shultz
Holy shite 
Posted on 6/19/13 at 10:21 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
no it's not false. You could "guard the ball"without guarding an opponent or you could guard a player within arms reach. Why do you think spacing is such a buzzword? Because defensive bigs can not camp out down low. You don't remember a lot of basketball.
Obviously you don't. You had to clear the lane or be actively guarding an opponent to stay in the lane. By the way Spacing is such a "buzzword" because without proper spacing other defenders can help on the ball and still able to recover to their man which means the defense doesn't have to rotate. Your just way off base in this discussion all together.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 10:47 pm to NawlinsTigah270
Jordan also went to college. Stats irrelevant. Show stats after same amount of years played in the NBA
Posted on 6/19/13 at 10:52 pm to NawlinsTigah270
quote:
All I am saying is that LeBron has accomplished more than anybody ever before turning 29, and it's not close at all. If he keeps it up he could be GOAT, but there are a lot of years left in which we can't predict what will happen. It's almost a certainty to say he will end up with more of everything than MJ with the exceptions of titles and finals MVPs (boards, blocks, steals, points, assists, regular season MVPs)
You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. In 5 minutes it took me to find that Magic and Bill Russell both won 5 championships before age 29....
Posted on 6/19/13 at 10:52 pm to GiveMeTheBigOne
2nd
First if the Heat win tomorrow.
First if the Heat win tomorrow.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 11:18 pm to DURANTULA
DURANTULA??? Have u ever watched basketball before. Dumbest post in history of TD
Posted on 6/19/13 at 11:23 pm to dwilk4
The best two basketball players to ever play the game are MJ and LBJ! And yes I'm over 15. I've watched bball since 80's. MJ is the GOAT but when it's all said and done and no injuries occur LBJ should pass.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 11:47 pm to AllBamaDoesIsWin
I can't tell if the posters who are saying he'll be first with a win tomorrow are trolling or not.
Let me just preface this by saying I am a LeBron fan and I'm rooting for him in this series. He's not even close to being first with a win tomorrow night. Is he on his way? Certainly. But he has a long way to go to being the all time GOAT. Being the GOAT isn't just about playing at an extremely high level. It's also about playing at an extremely high level for a long long career.
Of course LBJ came into the NBA with the talent and ability to lead a team that hadn't had a winning season since '98 to the playoffs in his third season and the finals in his fourth season with mostly the same core as the terrible team that picked him.
By contrast, KD and the Thunder built the core of that team over the course of three seasons before they made it to the playoffs. They drafted KD, drafted Westbrook the next year, and drafted Harden and Ibaka the next year.
So he's always had the natural talent with incredible basketball IQ (relative to his experience) but he is just getting into his prime. Bron may have put up better scoring figures back in his earlier days, but there is no question that LeBron today would wipe the floor with 18-21 year old Bron. He has become a MUCH better overall player the past 3 or 4 years. A lot more depth and versatility to his game. Basically, he's been playing at a high level from the beginning, but he's been playing at an extremely high level for just a few years. He was playing out of his mind over the course of this entire season. If he can sustain or increase this level of play for the next 4-6 years (with a few more championships along the way) he will likely go down as the GOAT without much question imo. But he's got a loooooooong way before he's there. He playing like the GOAT would play right now (again, taking this whole season into account, not just the last 6 games) but the players that are ahead of him played like this for many many years.
Let me just preface this by saying I am a LeBron fan and I'm rooting for him in this series. He's not even close to being first with a win tomorrow night. Is he on his way? Certainly. But he has a long way to go to being the all time GOAT. Being the GOAT isn't just about playing at an extremely high level. It's also about playing at an extremely high level for a long long career.
Of course LBJ came into the NBA with the talent and ability to lead a team that hadn't had a winning season since '98 to the playoffs in his third season and the finals in his fourth season with mostly the same core as the terrible team that picked him.
By contrast, KD and the Thunder built the core of that team over the course of three seasons before they made it to the playoffs. They drafted KD, drafted Westbrook the next year, and drafted Harden and Ibaka the next year.
So he's always had the natural talent with incredible basketball IQ (relative to his experience) but he is just getting into his prime. Bron may have put up better scoring figures back in his earlier days, but there is no question that LeBron today would wipe the floor with 18-21 year old Bron. He has become a MUCH better overall player the past 3 or 4 years. A lot more depth and versatility to his game. Basically, he's been playing at a high level from the beginning, but he's been playing at an extremely high level for just a few years. He was playing out of his mind over the course of this entire season. If he can sustain or increase this level of play for the next 4-6 years (with a few more championships along the way) he will likely go down as the GOAT without much question imo. But he's got a loooooooong way before he's there. He playing like the GOAT would play right now (again, taking this whole season into account, not just the last 6 games) but the players that are ahead of him played like this for many many years.
Posted on 6/20/13 at 1:00 am to dwilk4
quote:
The best two basketball players to ever play the game are MJ and LBJ! And yes I'm over 15. I've watched bball since 80's. MJ is the GOAT but when it's all said and done and no injuries occur LBJ should pass
Posted on 6/20/13 at 7:15 am to GiveMeTheBigOne
quote:
Lebron-where do you rank him on your GOAT list
Has this thread ever been done before?
Posted on 6/20/13 at 7:47 am to TigerChief10
quote:
Jordan also went to college. Stats irrelevant. Show stats after same amount of years played in the NBA
age is a better comparison, but totals are not fair to jordan
Posted on 6/20/13 at 7:51 am to GiveMeTheBigOne
Around #15 right now. A title tonight puts him around #9-10.
ETA:
1) MJ
2) Magic
3) Kareem
4) Wilt
5) Bird
6) Kobe
7) Shaq
8) Duncan
9) Russell
10) Hakeem
Damn. Now that I'm looking at it, it's still real hard for me to put LeBron in my top 10 even after a title tonight.
ETA:
1) MJ
2) Magic
3) Kareem
4) Wilt
5) Bird
6) Kobe
7) Shaq
8) Duncan
9) Russell
10) Hakeem
Damn. Now that I'm looking at it, it's still real hard for me to put LeBron in my top 10 even after a title tonight.
This post was edited on 6/20/13 at 8:03 am
Posted on 6/20/13 at 8:35 am to PhiTiger1764
This is what MJ did in the NBA Finals.
1991 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Leading scorer in the NBA Finals with 31.3 points per game as the Bulls defeated the Los Angeles Lakers, 4-1, to win the franchise’s first NBA title.
1992 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged 35.8 points, 4.8 rebounds and 6.5 assists per game as the Bulls defeated the Portland Trail Blazers, 4-2, to win their second consecutive NBA title.
1993 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged NBA Finals record of 41.0 points per game, while collecting 8.5 rebounds and 6.3 assists, in leading the Bulls to their third straight NBA title -- the first team in 27 years to win three consecutive titles.
1996 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged 27.3 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.2 assists and 1.67 steals to lead the Bulls to a 4-2 defeat of the Seattle SuperSonics. Named Finals MVP for record fourth time. Scored 36 points in Game #3 win on road.
1997 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged 32.3 points, 7.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists to lead the Bulls to a 4-2 victory over the Utah Jazz for an unprecedented fifth NBA Finals MVP. Jordan’s heroics included a game-winning shot at the buzzer in Game #1, a near triple-double in Game #2 (38 points, 13 rebounds, nine assists) and a flu-ridden 38 point-performance in Game #5.
1998 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged 33.5 points, 4.0 rebounds and 2.3 assists to lead the Bulls to a 4-2 victory over the Utah Jazz for his sixth NBA Finals MVP. Jordan sank the game-winning jump shot in Game #6 to propel the Bulls to victory on the road at the Delta Center.
1991 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Leading scorer in the NBA Finals with 31.3 points per game as the Bulls defeated the Los Angeles Lakers, 4-1, to win the franchise’s first NBA title.
1992 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged 35.8 points, 4.8 rebounds and 6.5 assists per game as the Bulls defeated the Portland Trail Blazers, 4-2, to win their second consecutive NBA title.
1993 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged NBA Finals record of 41.0 points per game, while collecting 8.5 rebounds and 6.3 assists, in leading the Bulls to their third straight NBA title -- the first team in 27 years to win three consecutive titles.
1996 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged 27.3 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.2 assists and 1.67 steals to lead the Bulls to a 4-2 defeat of the Seattle SuperSonics. Named Finals MVP for record fourth time. Scored 36 points in Game #3 win on road.
1997 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged 32.3 points, 7.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists to lead the Bulls to a 4-2 victory over the Utah Jazz for an unprecedented fifth NBA Finals MVP. Jordan’s heroics included a game-winning shot at the buzzer in Game #1, a near triple-double in Game #2 (38 points, 13 rebounds, nine assists) and a flu-ridden 38 point-performance in Game #5.
1998 -- Michael Jordan, Chicago
Averaged 33.5 points, 4.0 rebounds and 2.3 assists to lead the Bulls to a 4-2 victory over the Utah Jazz for his sixth NBA Finals MVP. Jordan sank the game-winning jump shot in Game #6 to propel the Bulls to victory on the road at the Delta Center.
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