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Started By
Message
re: Lebron v. Kobe - How does anyone still pick Kobe?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:17 am to NorthGAVol
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:17 am to NorthGAVol
quote:
Kobe should've won the MVP in 2006 when he averaged 35 ppg (most since MJ in 1988) and led a trash heap roster outside of Lamar Odom to 45 wins and a playoff spot in the brutal western conference.
The one year where he had a shitty team.
Meanwhile, Lebron took a team to the finals with Larry Hughes as the second best player. And he's got a shot for a title with Delladova, Shumpert, TT, Mozgov as his starting unit.
2
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
as long as his team is elite around him
ahem ... the same could be said about Shaq. Tell me that I'm wrong.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:18 am to PhiTiger1764
quote:
Not really. I'm not sure anyone in the history of basketball does actually. Idk. Haven't looked it up.
11 time first team All-NBA
9 time first team All-defense
That is ridiculous.
6× NBA champion
6× NBA Finals MVP
5× NBA Most Valuable Player
14× NBA All-Star
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP
10× All-NBA First Team
All-NBA Second Team
NBA Defensive Player of the Year
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team
NBA Rookie of the Year
NBA All-Rookie First Team
10× NBA scoring champion
3× NBA steals champion
2× NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion
NBA All-Time playoff scoring leader
3x AP Athlete of the Year
2x USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
NCAA champion
2× Consensus first-team All-American
National college player of the year
ACC Player of the Year
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:19 am to Tigerfan56
quote:
Meanwhile, Lebron took a team to the finals with Larry Hughes as the second best player.
In the east
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:20 am to Salmon
quote:Yea, that's why the post was irrelevant, why come to this thread to tell us who you like? I like friend shrimp, is that relevant to the conversation?
no shite?
quote:No, I think we do.
and guess what? nobody here actually knows who is/was better
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:23 am to SPEEDY
Great accolades there for MJ. Still, it looks like no one in the history of basketball can match 11 All NBA first teams and 9 first team All defense selections.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 9:25 am
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:24 am to shel311
quote:
Yea, that's why the post was irrelevant, why come to this thread to tell us who you like?
because it is a goddamn thread about how someone could/would rank Kobe ahead of Lebron
I like the way Kobe played better than Lebron, hence the reason why I would put Kobe over Lebron in my ranking system
quote:
No, I think we do.
"think"
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:26 am to Tigerfan56
quote:
The one year where he had a shitty team.
Meanwhile, Lebron took a team to the finals with Larry Hughes as the second best player. And he's got a shot for a title with Delladova, Shumpert, TT, Mozgov as his starting unit.
I'm not downing LBJ in this thread. In fact, I have him higher than Kobe on my all time list even though Kobe is my favorite basketball player of all time.
I'm just saying this narrative that Kobe can't do shite without multiple superstars / more talent is so stupid.
Kobe had Shaq, Gasol and some good role players.
Jordan had Pippen, Grant and good role players.
LBJ had Wade, Bosh and good role players. Why the hell do you think he left Cleveland the first time?
Bird had Mchale and Parrish on some stacked teams.
Same for Magic Johnson with KAJ, Worthy & Company.
Bill Russell played on the biggest juggernaut in NBA history.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 9:30 am
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:27 am to Salmon
quote:Right, so who cares who you like, like I just said, that's irrelevant.
because it is a goddamn thread about how someone could/would rank Kobe ahead of Lebron
quote:I wonder where you draw the line on that one.
"think"
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:29 am to shel311
quote:
so who cares who you like, like I just said, that's irrelevant.
can you read?
this is the OP
quote:
reading the "top 15 of all time" thread i saw a few people rank kobe over lebrno.
i can't believe anybody except the biggest kobe dickriders could justify this. what do you use to justify this ranking?
I can justify my ranking Kobe over Lebron anyway I want
just because you think it is wrong, doesn't make it wrong 
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:29 am to NorthGAVol
quote:I 100% agree with all of this, but lots of posters like to throw out the ring argument, with little else to support their assertions. When they do, you have to point out that these team differences do actually matter.
I'm not downing LBJ in this thread. In fact, I have him higher than Kobe on my all time list even though Kobe is my favorite basketball player of all time.
I'm just saying this narrative that Kobe can't do shite without multiple superstars / more talent is so stupid.
Kobe had Shaq, Gasol and some good role players.
Jordan had Pippen, Grant and good role players.
LBJ had Wade, Bosh and good role players. Why the hell do you think he left Cleveland the first time?
Bird had Mchale and Parrish on some stacked teams.
Same for Magic Johnson with KAB, Worthy & Company.
Bill Russell played on the biggest juggernaut in NBA history.
When 1 guy steps onto a team with prime Shaq, and the other plays his 1st 7 seasons where the best player he ever had was Mo Freaking Williams, for 2 seasons, that matters, and is also why the rings argument is so overrated.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 9:31 am
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:30 am to Salmon
quote:I think Lebron is the better player because he has the same kind of phone as me. I'm not wrong!!!
I can justify my ranking Kobe over Lebron anyway I want just because you think it is wrong, doesn't make it wrong
/I probably am wrong since I just got a new phone.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 9:32 am
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:33 am to shel311
see...you can justify your beliefs however you want 
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:35 am to arcalades
quote:
Kobe was a far better closer, and closing counts for a lot. If I were an owner, I'd prefer Lebron in his prime. If I want to win a championship, for now I'd want Kobe in his prime. That can still change.
Kobe's "clutch" stats are pretty terrible. Way worse than LeBron.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:35 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
Dat stare doe
I never found it to be believable.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:40 am to NorthGAVol
quote:
Kobe should've won the MVP in 2006 when he averaged 35 ppg (most since MJ in 1988) and led a trash heap roster outside of Lamar Odom to 45 wins and a playoff spot in the brutal western conference.
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm
Devean George
Smush Parker
Luke Walton
Brian Cook
Laron Profit
Sasha Vujacic
I'd argue Cleveland's roster in 2006-07 when they made the Finals was worse.
Žydrunas Ilgauskas
Scot Pollard
Drew Gooden
Donyell Marshall
Dwayne Jones
Ira Newble
David Wesley
Sasha Pavlovic
Daniel Gibson
Shannon Brown
Larry Hughes
Damon Jones
Anderson Varejão
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:41 am to SlowFlowPro
NGAF. stop these threads.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:42 am to shel311
quote:
I 100% agree with all of this, but lots of posters like to throw out the ring argument, with little else to support their assertions. When they do, you have to point out that these team differences do actually matter.
When 1 guy steps onto a team with prime Shaq, and the other plays his 1st 7 seasons where the best player he ever had was Mo Freaking Williams, for 2 seasons, that matters, and is also why the rings argument is so overrated.
I think rings should count for something but it's not the everything when ranking all time greats. Look at Wilt vs Russell head to head as a prime example. IMO Wilt was the better player but Russell more than tripled him in rings due to playing for most dominant team in history.
I will say the thing that strikes a nerve with me as a Lakers fan is when rings are discussed is how some want to completely discredit 3 of Kobe's titles because he played with Shaq. Shaq was the most dominant player I've ever seen during the first title run in 2000 but Kobe really came into his own as one of the elite players in the league in 2001. After that he was not exactly Shaq's "sidekick" but it was more of a 1A/1B type of deal.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:42 am to PhiTiger1764
quote:
"IT" as in frick you, I'm going to take over this game and win. IT as in losing is not a fricking option. IT as in I'm not going to start a super best friends club because I can't win
Are you an actual retarded person?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:49 am to Salmon
quote:
I can justify my ranking Kobe over Lebron anyway I want just because you think it is wrong, doesn't make it wrong
Anybody who claims that this argument is black and white and "anybody who says Lebron is better is wrong" or "anybody who says Kobe is better is wrong" is actually the one who is wrong.
Kobe has been a great player for 20 years in the NBA. He has had some great players around him and he has had bad players around him. Lebron has had some great players around him and has had some bad players around him. There is also no telling what will happen in his career over the next few years until he retires.
One of the main reasons it is hard to argue who is better is because none of their careers line up exactly. I think the league was tougher and more demanding back when Jordan played, less so when Kobe was in his prime, and less so now. Lebron got smacked in the face as he was going for a layup during the NBA Finals and he acted like it was the hardest foul of all time. MJ played during a time where that is the least you did when somebody came into the lane during the playoffs.
You can also argue that Lebron benefits from his larger frame and being a few inches taller than Kobe/Jordan.
It isn't black and white. You can argue it all you want, as you should, and defend your case, but there is no black/white answer.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 9:52 am
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