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re: LeBron James went 13/14 tonight: 31/8/8
Posted on 2/5/13 at 1:46 am to htran90
Posted on 2/5/13 at 1:46 am to htran90
quote:
just trying to find a classification that they both can be considered "best of the best" without destroying another's rep or downplaying one.. lol hard to do it
I don't think it's needed. LeBron needs resume building to have a career that rivals Jordan's, but as far as level of play and production on the court they're in the same realm of player. Speaking well of one doesn't necessitate speaking ill of the other, at least it shouldn't.
1
Posted on 2/5/13 at 1:50 am to jturn17
its pretty painfully obvious the Heat are at least going back to the Finals.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 8:00 am to WicKed WayZ
I hope he wins another ring.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 8:04 am to SabiDojo
Figure he'll win 1 or 2 more in Miami & then come back to Cleveland saying, "Alright now that I've got a few under my belt, let me & Kyrie get y'all some too."
Posted on 2/5/13 at 10:04 am to Roughneck
LBJ needs a Kobe like championship resume to be considered for the GOAT.
He needs the one thing Kobe and Jordan had...
Phil Jackson
He needs the one thing Kobe and Jordan had...
Phil Jackson
Posted on 2/5/13 at 10:08 am to Roughneck
quote:
Figure he'll win 1 or 2 more in Miami & then come back to Cleveland saying, "Alright now that I've got a few under my belt, let me & Kyrie get y'all some too."
After he gets 2-3 in Miami then 2-3 elsewhere, he will undoubtedly be the GOAT
Posted on 2/5/13 at 10:18 am to NawlinsTigah270
quote:He really doesn't. This count the rings bullshite needs to stop. Please make it stop. There's so much luck involved in winning a Championship. I just wish people would realize this, and stop using that as the end all be all of player analysis.
LBJ needs a Kobe like championship resume to be considered for the GOAT.
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 10:19 am
Posted on 2/5/13 at 10:19 am to jturn17
quote:Russell = GOAT
He really doesn't. This count the rings bullshite needs to stop. Please make it stop. There's so much luck involved in winning a Championship. I just wish people would realize this, and stop using that as the end all be all of player analysis.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 2:59 pm to jturn17
Lebron's Historic SeasonGood article to put into perspective the season Lebron is having.
From article "All the above information has to say, for now, is that James is not only having one of the best seasons of all time, but one of the most unique we’ve ever seen. As far as his efficiency goes, he’s Shaq at his peak, he’s Larry Bird in his prime, he’s rebounding better than, turning the ball over and fouling less than Magic Johnson and he’s shooting better than Michael Jordan at his best. He can also defend any position on the floor, and might be, while hardly on a consistent basis – he manages his energy – the league’s best defensive player"
"And, per NBA.com, James is turning a better PER in the clutch – last five minutes, up or down five points – than Jordan did in 96-97 (which is as far back as our data goes). Jordan has the edge the following season, but in 45 games James already has more clutch assists than Jordan did in those two seasons with the Bulls, combined."
From article "All the above information has to say, for now, is that James is not only having one of the best seasons of all time, but one of the most unique we’ve ever seen. As far as his efficiency goes, he’s Shaq at his peak, he’s Larry Bird in his prime, he’s rebounding better than, turning the ball over and fouling less than Magic Johnson and he’s shooting better than Michael Jordan at his best. He can also defend any position on the floor, and might be, while hardly on a consistent basis – he manages his energy – the league’s best defensive player"
"And, per NBA.com, James is turning a better PER in the clutch – last five minutes, up or down five points – than Jordan did in 96-97 (which is as far back as our data goes). Jordan has the edge the following season, but in 45 games James already has more clutch assists than Jordan did in those two seasons with the Bulls, combined."
Posted on 2/5/13 at 3:04 pm to LSUCurly
quote:
From 1986 to 1988, Larry Bird probably turned in the best back-to-back shooting seasons of all time. In the history of the league, only Bird has shot better than 52 percent from the field, on at least 15 shots per game, and 40 percent from three, with at least three attempts per game, while making more than 90 percent of his free-throws. And he did it in consecutive seasons.
James can’t compete with Bird on the free-throws, but take out the 90 percent requirement and James’ 2012-13 season becomes the third name on the list. The kicker is that James is shooting 55 percent from the field after his near-perfect night against Charlotte. Bird’s highest mark in these two seasons was 52.7 percent.
But let’s bring free-throws back into this for a moment. If we use true-shooting percentage, an amalgam of the values for field-goal, three-point and free-throw percentage, James is still having a more efficient season than Bird’s best despite being 18 percentage points worse from the charity stripe.
Damn. If only Bron could shoot FTs.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 3:29 pm to tigerpimpbot
he shoots around 75% if he shot about 90% he would only average like maybe 1 more point per game..
Posted on 2/5/13 at 5:55 pm to TigerMan327
his shot chart shows exactly why his move to Power Forward was the correct one.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 6:08 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Honestly, Lebron is on a career trajectory to be the second best player ever.
As long as you can sustain it for a long period of time, I prefer the peek then the longevity, so I already have LeBron penciled in at #2 already.
I've seen more than enough peek seasons to know that no one other than MJ has ever played the game as well as LeBron.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 6:12 pm to ShoeBang
quote:
LBJ needs a Kobe like championship resume to be considered for the GOAT.
Dear god, make it stop
Posted on 2/5/13 at 6:20 pm to shel311
Overall production > peak production IMO.
Peak is nice and all, but my classic argument goes back to Kobe and Wade. Like you insist, Wade has a greater peak. For the sake of the argument, let us consider that completely true. Even though Wade is greater at his best, I will take Kobe's 7 more super productive seasons that Wade never had.
That is also my qualm with PER. Per minute efficiency is a very good stat and arguably the most comprehensive one around (I really VA and EWA because it accounts for minutes played), but not all players play the same number of minutes. Just roughly giving numbers here, but give me 40 minutes of a PER of 23 over 32 minutes of a PER of 24. It is why I think Kobe is still the best 2 in the league. His overall production is hard to match.
Those 8 minutes where Wade is not playing, you have replacement level minutes.
40 minutes x 23 PER = 920 overall production for that game.
32 minutes x 24 PER + 8 minutes x 15 PER (replacment level PER) = 888 overall production for that game.
Obviously, that is ultra simplified and in a hypothetical vacuum, but it explains my premise adequately. The constant greatness of Kobe year after year amazes and any other players who "compile".
I think it is quite stupid that people rip compilers. All it means that they were superior to their counterparts at a later age and have also been lucky in that they can keep playing. So what if their star did not shine quite as bright, but it burned a lot slower and gave more light than the flash in the sky.
Peak is nice and all, but my classic argument goes back to Kobe and Wade. Like you insist, Wade has a greater peak. For the sake of the argument, let us consider that completely true. Even though Wade is greater at his best, I will take Kobe's 7 more super productive seasons that Wade never had.
That is also my qualm with PER. Per minute efficiency is a very good stat and arguably the most comprehensive one around (I really VA and EWA because it accounts for minutes played), but not all players play the same number of minutes. Just roughly giving numbers here, but give me 40 minutes of a PER of 23 over 32 minutes of a PER of 24. It is why I think Kobe is still the best 2 in the league. His overall production is hard to match.
Those 8 minutes where Wade is not playing, you have replacement level minutes.
40 minutes x 23 PER = 920 overall production for that game.
32 minutes x 24 PER + 8 minutes x 15 PER (replacment level PER) = 888 overall production for that game.
Obviously, that is ultra simplified and in a hypothetical vacuum, but it explains my premise adequately. The constant greatness of Kobe year after year amazes and any other players who "compile".
I think it is quite stupid that people rip compilers. All it means that they were superior to their counterparts at a later age and have also been lucky in that they can keep playing. So what if their star did not shine quite as bright, but it burned a lot slower and gave more light than the flash in the sky.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 6:22 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
Lebron and Kyrie>Lebron, wade and bosh
Posted on 2/5/13 at 6:26 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Overall production > peak production IMO.
I disagree
I have no desire to compare Kobe and Wade FWIW - but I think a guy like Charles Barkley was better than a guy playing a similar role with better longevity like Karl Malone.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 6:35 pm to molsusports
Fair enough. I just think this way because Barkley was marginally (or maybe even a good bit) better than Malone at their respective peaks, but the gaps when Malone was still producing and Barkley was not is simply greater. Just my look at things.
Peak is more season-based, but overall production is more career-based.
Peak is more season-based, but overall production is more career-based.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 6:39 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
I hear ya and I'm definitely not ripping compilers.
But where do you draw the line, on that?
Would you say a guy who averages a 15 PER, which is average, for 18 years had a better career than a guy who for 9 years averaged 30 PER, Lebron /Mj level?
I'll take 9 years of best ever play over 18 years of average play.
But where do you draw the line, on that?
Would you say a guy who averages a 15 PER, which is average, for 18 years had a better career than a guy who for 9 years averaged 30 PER, Lebron /Mj level?
I'll take 9 years of best ever play over 18 years of average play.
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 6:55 pm
Posted on 2/5/13 at 7:29 pm to shel311
quote:
Would you say a guy who averages a 15 PER, which is average, for 18 years had a better career than a guy who for 9 years averaged 30 PER, Lebron /Mj level?
I'll take 9 years of best ever play over 18 years of average play.
Everything should be taken within context. You claim to prefer peak performance. How long does a peak have to be? TMac had a peak that was as good as anybody ever with a 30 PER. I doubt you'd consider him one of the GOATs.
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 7:30 pm
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