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re: Kevin Love stays with Cavs -- 5 year / 110 Mill

Posted on 7/1/15 at 4:54 pm to
Posted by Dr. Shultz
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jun 2013
6391 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 4:54 pm to
quote:

You think the Cavs wouldn't be competing for championships with Wiggins?



They would have had no shot of winning a championship this year with Wiggins.

quote:

Does Love give them a better chance to win right now? Yeah. Next season for sure. However, the fact of the matter is that the Cavs could both compete for championships and keep a really good player for the long haul at the same time.


They will end up getting Kevin Love, a proven all star, for 5-6 years at a minimum. Sounds like a pretty long time to me.

quote:

Not even mentioning the fact that Wiggins would be on his rookie contract, providing extra cap space for the Cavs to build an even better roster (not having to pay Love $22M/year).


No, they wouldnt have had extra cap space. Replace Kevin Loves now 16m/year contract with Andrew Wiggins 5.5 mill contract last season and they are still over the cap. Even last year before they traded for him they were already over the cap after getting LeBron. They had to dump a shite ton of players to acquire him. That was the whole point of why they HAD to do the trade because they wouldn't be able to wait a year and sign him as a free agent because no room.

It's hard to predict what "could" have happened but it's a fact they couldn't have gotten any nice pieces as FA. Obviously could have still done S&T though. Would have had to ship off other contributors though obviously..

Also. Without Love, that makes TT the starting PF and Anthony Bennet the backup. Then at center you have Verajo and Tyler Zeller.

We can assume Verajo still would have gotten injured so then their front court would have been Zeller, Bennet, and TT. Not to good huh?

Next up, what does Wiggins play? They will want to get him major moves bc he is the future that you think he is. I think he should be a SF but he would definitely play SG for the Cavs.

Season would have started off with Waiters starting and Wiggins coming off the bench and the roles might have switched eventually.

If those 2 are playing SG, there isnt a very high chance they want to do the trade for JR Smith and Iman Shumpert bc they also had Mike Miller and Harris. They don't need 4 SGs. So thats 1 trade that wouldnt happen.

Next, we have Mozgov. I think no matter what they would have got them because they wanted him all along. The injury to Verajo forced their hand to give 2 first round picks but its definitely worth it.


So yeah. With Wiggins, you don't even have the same team as the one that played in the finals so to say he would take them to the finals is kind of a long shot.

Let's not forget also, before the trade for JR Smith, Mozgov, and Shumpert they were 19-20.

Imagine what their record would have been without Kevin Love??

They would have had a real shite season last year without that trade man. You can't just plug in Wiggins for Love and assume all the other pieces are the same bc they aren't.

Then, the next season they still wouldn't have room to sign any FAs and TT would have gotten a full max deal this summer (because he was the starter and probably would have better numbers and be there other "future" star.. oh and his agent is Lebrons BFF).

quote:

Most people think Wiggins is going to be a really good, all-star caliber player for a lot of years. I just think it was shortsighted on the Cavs' part. People will argue that they HAVE to look short-term, because they're in a win-now mode. My opinion is that they'll be competing for (and winning) championship(s) for the next 2-3 years no matter who is around LeBron and Irving. And I don't see how anyone can disagree with that.



Yeah. People think that. But nobody KNOWS he will be a star. and to say it is shortsighted man.. Really?

LeBron will be there til he retires and you got TT, Kevin Love, and Kyrie for ATLEAST another 4-5 years.

Cavs made the smart choice. If Wiggins ends up becoming the next Kobe Bryant, I might sing a different tune. But until then... I aint worried about it.

Also, he wouldn't be an all star for the Cavs for another half decade if he stayed. Kyrie and LeBron would be the #1 and #2 guys for the next 4+ years without question.
Posted by Dr. Shultz
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jun 2013
6391 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 4:57 pm to
quote:

I know the deal he got I just don't understand how CLE plans on utilizing TT and Love. Love is a great player but I am not sure he is the right fit on that team. TT is exactly what Lebron needs. If Kyrie doesn't get injured they may win the finals. I don't think having a healthy Love makes a difference one way or the other.



You are sadly ill informed my friend. TT is exactly what LeBron DOESNT need.

A PF with no offensive game that clogs the lane?? Hell no. Kyrie and LeBron need space to drive to the rim. We don't need lebron shooting jumpers 24\7.

Love, on the other hand, spreads the floor with his ability to shoot the 3. He is exactly what the Cavs need. They do under utilize his skills and he could be better on defense but he's still MUCH more valuable to the Cavs then TT ever will be.
Posted by c on z
Zamunda
Member since Mar 2009
127402 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 4:59 pm to
I guess TT would be good in a defensive lineup. That's all I got.
Posted by Dr. Shultz
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jun 2013
6391 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 5:02 pm to
quote:

I guess TT would be good in a defensive lineup. That's all I got.



TT isn't even a good defender. He's just energetic and good at getting rebounds and put backs every now and then.

He's a good energy bench guy. Hate that they are wasting that much money on him.
Posted by philabuck
NE Ohio
Member since Sep 2008
10379 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 5:10 pm to
He can switch on smaller guys so it gives the Cavs a small lineup option.

I told you the man was going to get paid
Posted by BayouBengals03
lsu14always
Member since Nov 2007
99999 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 6:19 pm to
Just too many words and hypotheticals.

I'll just say I disagree.
Posted by Dr. Shultz
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jun 2013
6391 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 6:22 pm to
quote:

Just too many words and hypotheticals.

I'll just say I disagree.



I agree it's impossible to guess or speculate on what moves they would have made if they wouldnt have traded for Love. But it's a fact that they were gonna be over the salary cap with or without him.

They could only have signed MLE's, used trade exceptions, signed players for vet mins, or done other trades. Couldn't have gotten any good FAs
This post was edited on 7/1/15 at 6:23 pm
Posted by SPEEDY
2005 Tiger Smack Poster of the Year
Member since Dec 2003
83365 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 6:24 pm to
So what's the Cavs' luxury tax number gonna look like after they resign TT and Lebron?

Geez
Posted by BayouBengals03
lsu14always
Member since Nov 2007
99999 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 6:29 pm to
Never mind. I saw this gem...
quote:

They would have had a real shite season last year without that trade man. You can't just plug in Wiggins for Love and assume all the other pieces are the same bc they aren't.

I never said that.

And they would have had a real shite season? Are you kidding me right now? As a LeBron guy, you can't possibly sit there and tell me you wouldn't have still thought the Cavs would win the East with LeBron and Kyrie on their team. That's an absolute joke. They would still have been the favorites, without question.

The Cavs would have been in the Finals this year if they kept Wiggins, IMO. Who is beating them in the East? With the game slowed down and LeBron as good as he is, who can beat them 4 times? Atlanta? Toronto? No.

Chicago would have been the only shot, and they let themselves get dick slapped by Dellavedova in a closeout game.

You keep saying how bad the Cavs COULD have been had they kept Wiggins. Look how bad they were in the Finals. Mike Miller and James Jones were getting minutes. JR Smith was awful and played a ton. Della had two good games and sucked. It WAS a pretty terrible roster. The odds of it getting much worse aren't very high.

To say the Cavs would have had a shite season is pretty silly. Would they have won the title? I doubt it. Would they have been in the Finals? Based on how terrible the East is, I would think so.
This post was edited on 7/1/15 at 6:31 pm
Posted by Dr. Shultz
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jun 2013
6391 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 6:44 pm to
I think they are already at around 88 mill after they resign TT and LeBron. Then they want to resign Shump for around 10 and JR for around 6-7.

Could be 50+ mill I would think.
Posted by Dr. Shultz
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jun 2013
6391 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 6:46 pm to
Honestly it's dumb to speculate on what their record or what they could have done without Love and with Wiggins.

But they were 19-20 before they got JR Smith, Shump, and Mozgov.

They wouldn't need Smith and SHump if they kept Wiggins but they would still need Mozgov.

I 100% believe they would not have won the East and would have lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs if they had the same lineup they started the season with and instead substituted Wiggins for Love

Either way. They are a better team with Love instead of Wiggins and will be for the next 5 years at a minimum. Do you agree?
This post was edited on 7/1/15 at 6:49 pm
Posted by BayouBengals03
lsu14always
Member since Nov 2007
99999 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 6:56 pm to
quote:

Honestly it's dumb to speculate on what their record or what they could have done without Love and with Wiggins.

It's hard to speculate. But to say they would have had a shite season is crazy.

They were the betting favorite ( LINK) to win the NBA title the second LeBron came back. Before the Love trade happened.
quote:

But they were 19-20 before they got JR Smith, Shump, and Mozgov.

They wouldn't need Smith and SHump if they kept Wiggins but they would still need Mozgov.

I realize they were struggling, but all you have to do is make the playoffs, which they obviously would have. Yes, Mozgov was a huge piece for them, and it's hard to know what their roster would have looked like, I agree. I was pretty skeptical of the Cavs halfway through the season, too. That trade no doubt helped turn their season around. However, if a team in the East has LeBron and Kyrie on it, don't you think they're going to make it to the Finals? And with the Cavs "win now" mindset (which they still would have had with Wiggins), they weren't going to be shy to make moves to improve their team under any scenario.
quote:

Either way. They are a better team with Love instead of Wiggins and will be for the next 5 years at a minimum. Do you agree?

Not trying to be a dick, but honestly just wondering... what made you change your opinion? LINK

quote:

In the long run I think no Love is the best for the Cavs to have continued success for 6+ years.

These young guys are ballers and without having to sign Love to 20+ mill that leaves them with space over the years to continue to bring in good role players.
Posted by SPEEDY
2005 Tiger Smack Poster of the Year
Member since Dec 2003
83365 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 6:56 pm to
Damn. So they just resigned Shumpert for $10m per

Gilbert don't give a frick
Posted by Dr. Shultz
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jun 2013
6391 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 7:07 pm to
That was a year ago before i even got to see them play together


Did you really go that far back in my post history?


At the time, I didn't realize their cap situation and I also didn't think they would have a chance to win it all in the 1st year. After seeing what they in the 1st year with him it was obviously the better decision.



and to be honest. If we could get a guy who could hit 3s and play elite defense to play the 4 for cheaper I would probably like them more than Love also

But Wiggins doesn't fit that bill.
This post was edited on 7/1/15 at 7:09 pm
Posted by genro
Member since Nov 2011
61788 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 7:13 pm to
quote:


It was still stupid to trade Wiggins either way, IMO. 
Uh, they could very well win the NBA Title next year...
Posted by BayouBengals03
lsu14always
Member since Nov 2007
99999 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 7:16 pm to
quote:

Did you really go that far back in my post history?

I went through the free agency thread last year to find the odds after LeBron left. Figured I'd check out the takes on it from last year while I was there.
quote:

At the time, I didn't realize their cap situation and I also didn't think they would have a chance to win it all in the 1st year. After seeing what they in the 1st year with him it was obviously the better decision.

You are only able to use hindsight for one scenario. That makes it easy.

Is it obvious? Sure, Love helps them. But they also had their hiccups throughout the season, Love having trouble fitting in and all that bullshite. Love's injury couldn't have been predicted, so I don't take that into consideration.

I just think you're being really cut and dry about all this. The fact is that the Cavs were the favorite to win the title last season even before Love got there. I think that certainly counts for something. You should trust LeBron's greatness enough to not doubt the fact that he could carry pretty much any shite team around him and Kyrie to at least the conference finals, given how bad the East is.
Posted by BayouBengals03
lsu14always
Member since Nov 2007
99999 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 7:18 pm to
quote:

Uh, they could very well win the NBA Title next year...

They won 2 games against one of the best teams ever (statistically) with LeBron and a bunch of nobodies.

Of course they could win the title next year. I think they could win it without Love, too.

Healthy LeBron and Kyrie are winning the East next season. It's the 2016-2017 season where things in the East could get interesting.
Posted by KillerNut9
Pearl Jam
Member since Dec 2007
33505 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 7:18 pm to
quote:

But they also had their hiccups throughout the season


They went like 33-3 to close the regular season
Posted by BayouBengals03
lsu14always
Member since Nov 2007
99999 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 7:20 pm to
quote:

They went like 33-3 to close the regular season

Obviously I was talking about their start, before the trades.

Posted by genro
Member since Nov 2011
61788 posts
Posted on 7/1/15 at 7:20 pm to
Just hard to call anything a stupid trade if it brings you a title.
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