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re: Is Paul Pierce doing what Kobe should have done?
Posted on 5/10/15 at 6:17 pm to sugar71
Posted on 5/10/15 at 6:17 pm to sugar71
quote:
Kareem peak seasons were in Milwaukee
3 MVPs in Mil
3 MVPs in LA
he was 27-28 and seven seasons in, when he went to Lakerland. he had plenty of peak left in him.
This post was edited on 5/10/15 at 6:19 pm
1
Posted on 5/10/15 at 6:25 pm to sugar71
quote:
bad news for joe namath, michael jordan, patrick ewing, willie mays, ozzie smith, greg maddux, roger clemens, barry bonds, etc
None of these guys played for the Lakers I assume?
He said Lakers.
he's admitted it is his personal rule... and probably by inference that it is irrational/wrong by the standards of most people.
If your rule doesn't make sense for some of the greatest names in history then it doesn't make sense IMO. It would declare the players most people consider the greatest to play ineligible to be an all time great for their teams:
baseball: Babe Ruth
basketball: michael jordan
hockey: wayne gretsky
football: jerry rice/joe montana
Posted on 5/10/15 at 7:13 pm to molsusports
What? When you have three players with identical resumes, I will put the players who have spent their whole career with the team over the one who hasn't
Posted on 5/10/15 at 7:30 pm to WestCoastAg
identical?
I'd rank the other guy higher because he also excelled on other teams in other situations.
I'd rank the other guy higher because he also excelled on other teams in other situations.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 7:32 pm to SwaggerCopter
quote:
Paul Pierce
My most disliked player in all of sports.... A real good player though and I knew he was gonna hit that shot yesterday when they passed it to him.....
Posted on 5/10/15 at 8:05 pm to molsusports
pretty much. with the lakers, kareem won 5 titles, won 3 mvps, and a nba finals mvp. kobe won 5 titles, has a mvp, and won two nba finals mvp, magic won 5 titles, 3 mvps, and 3 finals mvps. id say all three resumes are pretty equal
Posted on 5/10/15 at 8:07 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
id say all three resumes are pretty equal
Magic
Kareem
Kobe
Posted on 5/10/15 at 8:07 pm to WestCoastAg
right, but like Babe Ruth prior to the Yankees... Kareem had very significant career achievements prior to reaching the Lakers. Edge to Ruth/Kareem
Posted on 5/10/15 at 8:09 pm to molsusports
and i can care less about what he did before he was a laker when figuring out where he stands in laker history. kareem was a better player than kobe, no doubt, and his place in history as such is undeniable. that has never been in question. but kobe was the better laker
This post was edited on 5/10/15 at 8:10 pm
Posted on 5/10/15 at 8:11 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
but kobe was the better laker
Over Kareem....YES he was... Overall though ...no......
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:13 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
pretty much. with the lakers, kareem won 5 titles, won 3 mvps, and a nba finals mvp.
And there is no question about Kobe role in his 5 championships.
People simply overlook the fact that Kareem was 40 & 41 years old & the Lakers 4th option on the repeat teams of 87-88
Kareem in 1987-88 was sharing minutes with Mychal Thompson & was 6th on the depth chart(minutes played).
Kareem averaged 17 & 6 in 1987 & 14 & 6 in 1988 as the 4th option behind Worthy , Magic & even Byron Scott by then.
Kobe had a far more important role in his 5 rings as a Laker than Kareem & had a longer tenure than Kareem.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:22 pm to WestCoastAg
In other words, the 'career Laker' rule only comes into effect when you want it to. West and Baylor are all-tome greats, in West's case, as a player and GM.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:26 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
MVPs in Mil
3 MVPs in LA
he was 27-28 and seven seasons in, when he went to Lakerland. he had plenty of peak left in him.
Never said Kareem was done when he made it to L.A. , but they were certainly 4 very disappointing seasons of a bitter/aloof Kareem.
He won the MVP in his 1st season on a 40-42 squad that did not make the playoffs.
Won MVP again(food for him) but swept in the 2nd rd of the playoffs
Kareem had another 1st rd & 2nd rd exit to round out his 4 bitter pre Magic season's .. Despite teammates like Adrian Dantley, Wilkes, Nixon, etc...
Miraculously he won 60 games and a Ring during Magics rookie season(ironically Kareem watched the closeout at home).
Kareem was 32 & close to his twilight years & although inconsistent tasted his last dominance in 1985(when some felt he should have retired at 38 but money issues...)
Kareem held on to win 2 more rings as the the Lakers 4th option behind Scott, Magic & Worthy.
Most of Kareems real team success in L.A was with Magic at age 32 & beyond post Prime & twilight years.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:31 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:what? i apologize if i made it seem like thats the end all be all, thats my fault, but i use it as a way to differentiate players with similar resumes.
the 'career Laker' rule only comes into effect when you want it to
quote:yes. as are kobe, kareem, and magic. kobe, kareem, and magic accountated for 10 championships. elgin didnt win one, and jerry only won one. they are hall of fame players and top 20 players of all time, but when compared to the big three lakers, they come up short. thats not a slight to them, as much as its fricking insane and unfair how much talent has come through the laker organization
West and Baylor are all-tome greats, in West's case, as a player and GM.
This post was edited on 5/10/15 at 10:31 pm
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:35 pm to WestCoastAg
How many of those 10 titles was Jerry responsible for as GM?
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:38 pm to FightinTigersDammit
of those 10? 8 of them. but we are only discussing players. if we were to talk about the overall most important people to the organization, it would start with dr jerry buss, then magic, then jerry west, then kobe
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:07 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
How many of those 10 titles was Jerry responsible for as GM?
Lets see.
You do know West was not GM in 1980 & 82 when the Magic /Kareem Lakers won the NBA finals?
Jerry West was a Lakers scout in 1979/80 who wanted to draft Sidney Moncrief over Magic ,but was overruled by the potential new owner Buss & Lakers Management(Sharman).
Bill Sharman built the Showtime Lakers (not Jerry West) & moved on to be President & was only replaced as GM in 1983 by West.
I would say Bill Sharman as GM/President was more responsible for the 5 Lakers rings in the 1980's & Showtime .
So Shaq just walked into Wests office & signed because he wanted to be in a big market & the Kobe trade was his greatest move in over 20 years as a GM.
West Left the Lakers in 2002 & the Lakers were totally rebuilt by Mitch Journal(admittedly with Kobe who was West best move)
You're not gonna give Kupchak credit for basically rebuilding the Lakers from scratch & making 3 NBA finals & winning 2 ?
Not as clear cut as you think.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:13 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
of those 10? 8 of them. but we are only discussing player
Not even 8 as West was only a scout in 1979 who wanted to draft Sidney Moncrief over Magic. Bill Sharman was the GM/President during the 1980's & it was Sharman who built /presided over showtime Lakers & won 5 rings. West took over in 83 & worked under team President Sharman as GM of a dynasty Sharman built.
Mitch Kupchak should get some credit for completely rebuilding the Lakers after West left in 2002 & Shaq's departure.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:15 pm to sugar71
quote:i knew he was the scout but i didnt know he wanted moncrief. interesting
Not even 8 as West was only a scout in 1979 who wanted to draft Sidney Moncrief over Magic.
quote:he does. he gets credit for the two titles of the late 2000s
Mitch Kupchak should get some credit for completely rebuilding the Lakers after West left in 2002 & Shaq's departure.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:35 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
knew he was the scout but i didnt know he wanted moncrief. interesting
Sports Illustrated did an interesting article about West wanting Moncrief over Magic(they mistakenly call him Lakers GM in the article ,but he was a scout):
LINK
Although Moncrief was a great player he honestly admits that maybe he would have won a ring or 2 with the Lakers , but Magic was special & he could not have achieved as much.
Many people mistakenly think that Jerry West built Showtime.
I hope that link works.
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