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Does anybody here know the actual legal issue(s) in the Tom Brady court case?
Posted on 8/31/15 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 8/31/15 at 1:52 pm
My basic understanding is that there was essentially a labor arbitration award issued regarding Brady's suspension, and Brady and/or the Pats filed a court case to vacate that labor arbitration award.
If that is the situation, then as I understand it, the standard is one of the highest in the law. Basically, if the arbitrator was not "arguably construing" the labor agreement, and/or "dispensing his own brand of industrial justice," then the award will be upheld.
Having said all that, what did Goodell supposedly do wrong? Because it doesn't matter if he was just "incorrect."
Let us discuss.
If that is the situation, then as I understand it, the standard is one of the highest in the law. Basically, if the arbitrator was not "arguably construing" the labor agreement, and/or "dispensing his own brand of industrial justice," then the award will be upheld.
Having said all that, what did Goodell supposedly do wrong? Because it doesn't matter if he was just "incorrect."
Let us discuss.
8
Posted on 8/31/15 at 1:56 pm to baybeefeetz
I want to know if this court has the authority to "stay" his suspension and let him play.
I'd also like a legal opinion on the likelihood of this happening.
Would love to bet gobs of money on NE Pats to cover and then hedge out of it if he's not cleared to play.
I think Brady is going to be a machine this year - his life mission will be to have Goodell handing him the Super Bowl MVP trophy
I'd also like a legal opinion on the likelihood of this happening.
Would love to bet gobs of money on NE Pats to cover and then hedge out of it if he's not cleared to play.
I think Brady is going to be a machine this year - his life mission will be to have Goodell handing him the Super Bowl MVP trophy
This post was edited on 8/31/15 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 8/31/15 at 1:57 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:apparently not the NFL lawyers - it appears this judge is getting ready to bend Goodell over his desk and run a peen exam to his poppy glands.
Does anybody here know the actual legal issue(s) in the Tom Brady court case? by baybeefeetz
Posted on 8/31/15 at 1:59 pm to baybeefeetz
Actually the NFL filed the case asking the judge to affirm his ruling. They filed the case so that it would be heard in New York, instead of the NFLPA filing in Minnesota. The NFLPA filed a countersuit to get the suspension thrown out. The Pats have nothing to do with the case. It is all Brady and the Players' Association.
As far as I understand things, the NFL wants the judge to say "yes, you followed the procedure that is outlined in the CBA." The PA wants the judge to actually rule on the merits of the suspension.
As far as I understand things, the NFL wants the judge to say "yes, you followed the procedure that is outlined in the CBA." The PA wants the judge to actually rule on the merits of the suspension.
Posted on 8/31/15 at 1:59 pm to baybeefeetz
Basically I think it will be upheld.
Brady (through his union) collectively bargained with the league to have Goodell be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to the NFL disciplining players. Therefore, the only question is whether Brady received due process as it concerns his suspension. Again, this is going to be viewed through the parameters of the CBA. There should be no consideration as to whether Brady is guilty or not guilty or whether he slept with Goodell's wife or deflated a football. It will simply be the judge looking at the process Brady received and determining if it was "fundamentally fair." If it was then it will be upheld, if it wasn't it wont.
Brady (through his union) collectively bargained with the league to have Goodell be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to the NFL disciplining players. Therefore, the only question is whether Brady received due process as it concerns his suspension. Again, this is going to be viewed through the parameters of the CBA. There should be no consideration as to whether Brady is guilty or not guilty or whether he slept with Goodell's wife or deflated a football. It will simply be the judge looking at the process Brady received and determining if it was "fundamentally fair." If it was then it will be upheld, if it wasn't it wont.
This post was edited on 8/31/15 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 8/31/15 at 2:04 pm to baybeefeetz
Posted on 8/31/15 at 2:05 pm to Larry
I don't even think it's as amorphous as "due process." Basically if the arbitrator didn't disregard the contract and engaged in usual "contract interpretation," his decision sticks.
It is hard to show that an arbitrator ignored a contract and "did his own thing."
It is hard to show that an arbitrator ignored a contract and "did his own thing."
This post was edited on 8/31/15 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 8/31/15 at 2:06 pm to Larry
quote:
Brady (through his union) collectively bargained with the league to have Goodell be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to the NFL disciplining players. Therefore, the only question is whether Brady received due process as it concerns his suspension. Again, this is going to be viewed through the parameters of the CBA. There should be no consideration as to whether Brady is guilty or not guilty or whether he slept with Goodell's wife or deflated a football. It will simply be the judge looking at the process Brady received and determining if it was "fundamentally fair." If it was then it will be upheld, if it wasn't it wont.
Except that Berman was digging through the NFL's case with a fine tooth comb, and as quoted, cases have been vacated for certain stunts the NFL pulled during it's appeals process.
quote:
Berman: "I believe some arbitration awards have been vacated" because a witness was not allowed to be called without explanation
Posted on 8/31/15 at 2:08 pm to Jcorye1
At the end of the day, I don't think anyone knows how he will rule. By most accounts, the Brady team looked better than the NFL team; however, this is one of the hardest legal battles to win.
Posted on 8/31/15 at 2:26 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
At the end of the day, I don't think anyone knows how he will rule
Posted on 8/31/15 at 2:29 pm to Bunk Moreland
From the NFLPA brief
quote:
Commissioner Tagliabue’s ruling is extremely broad:
There is no evidence of a record of past suspensions based purely on obstructing a League investigation. In my forty years of association with the NFL, I am aware of many instances of denials in disciplinary proceedings that proved to be false, but I cannot recall any suspension for such fabrication.
This post was edited on 8/31/15 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 8/31/15 at 2:42 pm to Jcorye1
This is the way I see it at this point.
A ruling for the NFL creates collateral damage. A ruling for Brady only hurts the NFL. If he felt Brady had a chance to win this why would he encourage him to settle?
I believe the settlement talks were an attempt to avoid collateral damage. Therefore I see him upholding the suspension.
A ruling for the NFL creates collateral damage. A ruling for Brady only hurts the NFL. If he felt Brady had a chance to win this why would he encourage him to settle?
I believe the settlement talks were an attempt to avoid collateral damage. Therefore I see him upholding the suspension.
Posted on 8/31/15 at 3:02 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
f he felt Brady had a chance to win this why would he encourage him to settle?
Because a settlement is the only way that this ends cleanly. A decision either way will lead to years of appeals. That's his job to manipulate the two sides into trying to negotiate.
Posted on 8/31/15 at 3:11 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Having said all that, what did Goodell supposedly do wrong? Because it doesn't matter if he was just "incorrect."
How did Vilma win?
Posted on 8/31/15 at 6:22 pm to baybeefeetz
Arbitration follows a procedure, which I believe is laid out in the CBA. It takes a lot for a judge to throw out an arbitration decision. Simply getting the wrong answer isn't enough. It's gotta be extreme. It can happen, but if the NFL followed procedure, then the judge should not try to overrule.
If the NFL didn't follow procedure, it gets more interesting.
What's clear is that the players absolutely get screwed in the CBA when it comes to the discipline process. Of course, the NFLPA negotiated the CBA, so the blame is with them. Or maybe the players got other concessions that made it worth it for them.
If the NFL didn't follow procedure, it gets more interesting.
What's clear is that the players absolutely get screwed in the CBA when it comes to the discipline process. Of course, the NFLPA negotiated the CBA, so the blame is with them. Or maybe the players got other concessions that made it worth it for them.
Posted on 8/31/15 at 6:56 pm to LSUFanHouston
The problem Berman is having with it is the NFL refusing to allow their guy to be questioned during the proceedings.
Posted on 8/31/15 at 7:04 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Berman’s eventual ruling could uphold the suspension (while potentially allowing Brady to play pending appeal), wipe it out (which the NFL could appeal) or send the whole thing back for another appeal heard by someone other than NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell.
per NBC
Posted on 9/1/15 at 8:44 am to TigerintheNO
Posted on 9/1/15 at 10:22 am to gameovergt
quote:
Various -gate players probably had no idea what they were doing (or not doing) was a Goodell-hammerable offense. This is explained well by Paul Tagliabue in his order vacating the Bountygate punishments.
“In this context, confronted with the events here [Bounty allegations and obstruction], Commissioner Goodell correctly set out aggressively to address them. But when an effort to change a culture rests heavily on prohibitions, and discipline and sanctions that are seen as selective, ad hoc or inconsistent, then people in all industries are prone to react negatively — whether they be construction workers, police officers or football players. They will push back and challenge the discipline as unwarranted. As reflected in the record in the present appeals, they will deny, hide behind a code of silence, destroy evidence and obstruct. In other words, rightly or wrongly, a sharp change in sanctions or discipline can often be seen as arbitrary and as an impediment rather than an instrument of change.”
Bountygate was similar to this one in that Goodell tried to do various suspensions of players of various lengths without really any principled reasoning as far as pretty much anyone could figure out. (As an aside, I’m pretty sure the players did not agree with the entirety of the Tagliabue factual record, but they agreed with the result.)
But re-read that quote from Tagliabue. He was warning Goodell. Different controversies will keep happening because Goodell’s punishments are very reactive and unnecessarily confrontational. They beg for legal problems. That’s no way to run a business.
Good stuff. Tagliabue was the man.
This post was edited on 9/1/15 at 10:24 am
Posted on 9/1/15 at 10:51 am to tigerpimpbot
PT for NFL commissioner again!
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