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re: Can you spot the NFL HOF Quarterback?
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:09 pm to supatigah
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:09 pm to supatigah
quote:
so his notoriety for his quick release, his incredible accuracy, his touch on the deep ball none of that means anything?
173 td's 220 int's.
In Summary:
Namath has worse numbers than Craig Morton based on the same amount of passes thrown in the same era, is 63-63 as a starter, was 17-29 for about 200 yards with no td's in the Super Bowl, and happened to beat a team that choked worse than any in history........so he is a Hall of Famer.
Those panty hose sure got that MoFo a lot out of life. It's all about New York. I fully expect Mark Sanchez to follow the same path.
0
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:12 pm to Jamohn
quote:
he played in New York
That and the guarantee are the only reasons why he's in the Hall of Fame.
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:15 pm to Jamohn
quote:
Seriously?
Because to make the following definitive statement, I was wondering what you were basing that on.
quote:
The only thing impressive about Namath was his swagger.
This post was edited on 1/29/10 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:19 pm to BBATiger
quote:
His career completion percentage of 50.1 is below average, as is his 173 touchdown passes versus 220 career interceptions.
Namath avg 27 passes per game over his career with a 14.7 y/c avg and 50.1% comp
some of his well known peers that played on far better teams than Namath did:
Unitas avg 24.5 attp/g with a 14.2 avg and a 54.6% rate
Bradshaw avg 23.2 a/g with a 13.8 avg and a 51.9% rate
Tarkenton avg 26.3 a/g with a 12.8 avg and a 57% rate
Dawson avg 17.7 a/g with a 13.4 avg and a 57.1% rate
Staubach avg 22.5 a/g with a 13.5 avg and a 57% rate
Stabler avg 20.6 a/g with a 12.3 avg and a 59.8% rate
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:27 pm to supatigah
quote:
Namath avg 27 passes per game over his career with a 14.7 y/c avg and 50.1% comp
A very key stat when trying to compare different eras statistically.
To put it in perspective, Namath is 13th in the all-time rankings of QB's Yd/Completion.
Where do others rank?
Elway - 98
Moon - 109
Montana - 154
P. Manning - 159
Brady - 185
Favre -194
Brees - 194
This post was edited on 1/29/10 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:28 pm to BBATiger
You have to look at these guys in the context of their competition. For example, Namath's completion percentage and TD/INT ratio are often pointed to and compared to QBs of today. However, if you look at what QBs were doing back when he played, you'll find that was what their numbers looked like prior to rules changes and the opening up of offenses.
Granted, I agree that Namath is slightly over rated, but he WAS the first QB to throw for 4000 yards in an era where that was completely unheard of.
But back to my original point of comparing athletes to their contemporaries, this is why I am not sure that Warner gets in--at least not immediately. Fast forward five years, and you can easily project a number of QBs passing his career stats, and these are guys with whom Warner's career overlapped and are currently and will continue to be rated as average or slightly above average QBs.
I sincerely think that the voters will take the current environment that has made it extremely easy for QBs (and WRs...) to rack up insane numbers and actually hold that against some of the top passers today. Warner may have to be an example that they will set, and it sucks for him.
Granted, I agree that Namath is slightly over rated, but he WAS the first QB to throw for 4000 yards in an era where that was completely unheard of.
But back to my original point of comparing athletes to their contemporaries, this is why I am not sure that Warner gets in--at least not immediately. Fast forward five years, and you can easily project a number of QBs passing his career stats, and these are guys with whom Warner's career overlapped and are currently and will continue to be rated as average or slightly above average QBs.
I sincerely think that the voters will take the current environment that has made it extremely easy for QBs (and WRs...) to rack up insane numbers and actually hold that against some of the top passers today. Warner may have to be an example that they will set, and it sucks for him.
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:30 pm to Jamohn
quote:
Incredible accuracy?? 50.1% completion percentage and 173 td's 220 int's = "incredible accuracy??" Awesome.
what is awesome is you and bba thinking that all teams, all offensive schemes, all personnel and all eras must be the same and it simply comes down to completions, yardage, INTs, TDs and completion percentage
Namath had a dominant running game in 68 and won the Super Bowl. Most of his other seasons he was the offense and throwing it DOWN the field was their bread and butter. I am sure BBA probably believe the careers of these two guys from roughly the same era playing in the exact same system mean they are equivalent as well:
Player A
125 games - 29.4 at/g with a 11.3 y/c avg, 61.6% rate 161TD/83INT
Player B
192 games - 28.1 at/g with a 11.9 y/c avg, 63.2% rate 273TD/139INT
except one is Jeff Garcia and the other is Joe Montana
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:30 pm to Sophandros
Here, look at the average performance per team (essentially, per QB) per season, and how completion percentage, Y/A, TDs/INTs, etc have evolved:
LINK
Leave Namath out of the argument, and compare Warner to the guys against whom he will be competing to get in the Hall at any point in time, starting in 2015. Think about who has recently retired and who will soon retire...
LINK
Leave Namath out of the argument, and compare Warner to the guys against whom he will be competing to get in the Hall at any point in time, starting in 2015. Think about who has recently retired and who will soon retire...
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:33 pm to supatigah
Montana started his career in a different passing environment than Garcia did, BTW...
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:35 pm to Sophandros
Stabler - 2270-3793 27,938 194 td's 222 int's
Namath - 1886-3762 27,663 173 td's 220 int's
Stabler had a much better record.
Stabler...not a HOF'er. Why is Namath in again?
Namath - 1886-3762 27,663 173 td's 220 int's
Stabler had a much better record.
Stabler...not a HOF'er. Why is Namath in again?
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:43 pm to BBATiger
quote:anybody else see any problems here?
being the first black person to become an NFL quarterback, and he also had a big Super Bowl win.
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:45 pm to MStreetTiger
quote:
A very key stat when trying to compare different eras statistically.
not according to some in this thread
1968 the Jets (13-3 record with Namath) avg 29 rushes and 27 passes per game
the 1969 Cowboys (11-3-1 record with Morton) avg 38 rushes per game and 25 passes per game
BBA believes a vertical passing team that has Don Maynard and George Sauer at WR is equivalent to a vertical passing team that has Bullet Bob Hayes and Lance Rentzel at WR and so Morton and Namath's stats are directly comparable
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:47 pm to supatigah
Supah wasnt Alworth on that Cowboy Team or did he show up the year Staubach started to play a lot?
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:48 pm to sms151t
alworth was a cowboy in 71/72
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:51 pm to supatigah
quote:
supatigah
You have been spitting out stats, but I've yet to hear your argument for Namath in the HOF. Tell me why he is in over Stabler. Please save the brought credability to the AFL crap.
It sounds like you think he's great because he made two white guys good WR's (with apoligies to Unitas and Berry), and he threw for 4000 yards.
Make your arguement, don't argue with mine.
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:52 pm to BRfit
quote:Actually, that would be Fritz Pollard.
being the first black person to become an NFL quarterback
First starter was Marlin Briscoe
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:55 pm to Jamohn
quote:And the reason his super bowl win was "big" was because he was the first black QB to win it. His claim to fame wasn't that he was the first black QB. Anybody in an argument like this should know that. I'm gona assume it was an honest mistake
Actually, that would be Fritz Pollard.
First starter was Marlin Briscoe
Posted on 1/29/10 at 2:58 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Montana started his career in a different passing environment than Garcia did, BTW...
uhm not really
Ken Anderson vs Garcia then yes, Montana and Garcia played in the same west coast offense with the mel blount rule
ken anderson played in the beginnings of the west coast short passing offense (with walsh as his OC from '71 rookie season to '75 when walsh left) that Walsh took to SF and used to make Montana a star
anderson played in 192games and avg 23.3 p/g with a 12.4y/c 197TD/160 INT with a 59% rate
Posted on 1/29/10 at 3:00 pm to Zach
Player A would get my vote
Posted on 1/29/10 at 3:01 pm to BRfit
quote:I agree w/ that part but you said he was the first black QB, didn't you? I'm gonna assume that was an honest mistake.
And the reason his super bowl win was "big" was because he was the first black QB to win it. His claim to fame wasn't that he was the first black QB. Anybody in an argument like this should know that. I'm gona assume it was an honest mistake
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