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Started By
Message
re: Calvin Johnson vs. Sterling Sharpe (HOF)
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:00 pm to LSUTIGER in TEXAS
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:00 pm to LSUTIGER in TEXAS
quote:
Megatron was the best WR in the league for 5 years = HoFer
No, he wasn't. Maybe 3 seasons, maybe.
1
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:02 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
same with 5-yard Wes Welker.
Averaged 11 yards per reception on his career.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:02 pm to brmark70816
Who was better?
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:03 pm to slackster
quote:
How the hell does that happen with one of the greatest seasons and red zone threats in the last 25 years
It's called being a pro football player for the Detroit Lions.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:08 pm to theducks
quote:
Who was better?
I guess it depends on which seasons he meant. Johnson was a beast 11-13 (3 seasons) and I wouldn't debate that he was either the best or very close. It would be a stretch to say 10, but that was a pretty good season. The past two seasons, 14-15, aren't really an argument and I wouldn't think he'd be top 3. Antonio Brown's numbers destroy Johnson's the past two seasons. Tons of other guys put up crazy numbers as well. Doesn't mean Johnson was bad, but no where near the best IMO..
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:14 pm to theducks
quote:
quote:
same with 5-yard Wes Welker.
Averaged 11 yards per reception on his career.
Dude, seriously?
That's his running after catch.
He caught most of his passes 3-4 yards off the line of scrimmage.
He was Mr. short-yard dink and dunk slant guy...who would try to wiggle for extra yards and move the chains.
The one big long catch he had in his career to seal the Pats NFL Title, he dropped.
One of the more overrated players of all-time. Didn't have the range or ability of elite receivers. Was a specialty of the Pats product. Could not stretch the field worth a damn.
This post was edited on 8/30/16 at 10:17 pm
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:20 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
I don't understand how it's even a debate. Calvin Johnson is absolutely a hall of fame receiver.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:30 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
So you can roll out numbers and act like they compare from when football was still football and you won't get much takers. This isn't chess or even baseball, things changed dramatically.
If you want to ignore raw numbers go right ahead, but being the top guy at your position for a 3-4 year stretch is the same today as it was in the 70s or 80s and that is all that really matters to me.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:36 pm to Froman
quote:
I don't understand how it's even a debate. Calvin Johnson is absolutely a hall of fame receiver.
It's a debate because there is a backlog of receivers because the HOF voters have dragged their feet...
And they can't reconcile this new era - with the changes to rules...
Helping offense. Punishing the defense.
You have tons of great 90's receivers waiting in line.
I think Calvin is that "talent guy gets in" because his numbers for this generation aren't all that great. He's the receiver Gayle Sayers.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:50 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
He doesn't average 8 YAC 
You have a huge thing against offenses that utilize the short routes for yards. Walker was an excellent route runner. He turned in a few good seasons in Denver until he was just not good anymore.
You have a huge thing against offenses that utilize the short routes for yards. Walker was an excellent route runner. He turned in a few good seasons in Denver until he was just not good anymore.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:55 pm to slackster
quote:
If you want to ignore raw numbers go right ahead, but being the top guy at your position for a 3-4 year stretch is the same today as it was in the 70s or 80s and that is all that really matters to me.
I don't disagree...but there is a backlog of receivers.
Johnson was one of the most talented players. But it's a fine line between talent and numbers.
I have no idea what the HOF voters will do...but he's no where near a lock.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 10:59 pm to theducks
quote:
According to ESPN Stats & Information, 374 of Welker’s 736 yards this season have been gained after the catch. This is an impressive stat because Welker is not a deep threat.
Most of his catches are short gains across the middle of the field, and Welker has to find holes in the defense and make defenders miss.
Never saying he didn't get the most out of his talent.
But he was never a full receiver who scared defenses.
He was smart and shifty, but he didn't have to face defenses taking your head off by a safety...he was in the era of dink and dunk...move the chains.
He could release off the line, free...of being bothered under the current rules. And he caught most passes in short distances.
This post was edited on 8/30/16 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 8/30/16 at 11:22 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
There are safeties he played against that could tear him a new one. Brian Dawkins, Lynch, and even in his prime, he had Teoy Polamalu (sp), Ed Reed, Roy Williams, Kam Chancellor, etc.. Just cuz you can't mug them at the line doesn't mean it's not football. Walker would've been (almost) just as good on the 9ers with Montana.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 11:50 pm to theducks
I'm interested in what he has to say-
Posted on 8/30/16 at 11:57 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Doesn't mean Johnson was bad, but no where near the best IMO..
do you understand what you say when you say "no where near the best"?
among retired players, there is no one with more average yards per game receiving
but you think he is "nowhere near the best". lol. ok guy
Posted on 8/31/16 at 12:03 am to slackster
Was that the season where he was tackled insides of the 3 yard line some insane amount of times?
Posted on 8/31/16 at 1:05 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
But he was never a full receiver who scared defenses.
He was smart and shifty, but he didn't have to face defenses taking your head off by a safety...he was in the era of dink and dunk...move the chains
Well at least he never took any hits………………
Welker is the toughest receiver I've ever seen… by far. Dude absolutely scared defenses… Rex Ryan widely considered a defensive genius, was so scared of him, he put Revis, in his prime, on Welker and let him cover him the whole game.
Welker's 6yr stretch is as impressive as any receiver ever.
This post was edited on 8/31/16 at 5:22 am
Posted on 8/31/16 at 1:13 am to Lester Earl
My memories of Megatron consist of him catching passes in double coverage because Mathew Stafford was his QB and he played for the Lions
It reminds me of playing ball at the Gym and I somehow get switched onto somebody 6'4" (for reference I'm 5'11") and it didn't matter what positioning I had, if he was near the hoop he was dunking it or putting up an uncontested layup. That is Calvin Johnson to me. His only coverage was his lack of weapons on offense.
It reminds me of playing ball at the Gym and I somehow get switched onto somebody 6'4" (for reference I'm 5'11") and it didn't matter what positioning I had, if he was near the hoop he was dunking it or putting up an uncontested layup. That is Calvin Johnson to me. His only coverage was his lack of weapons on offense.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 1:17 am to Jack Ruby
Welker was unstoppable. NE saw this when they chose to use him next to Moss in 07. He ran perfect routes and had good burst. He didn't have break the defense speed but he didn't need it.
Manning really laid him out to dry on a few occasions. Poor guy.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 1:41 am to theducks
Manning probably ended his career a good 2 or 3 yrs early. Those duck passes gave him a few more concussions.
Brady's deadly accuracy across the middle and intermediate passing ability made them a perfect fit.
Brady's deadly accuracy across the middle and intermediate passing ability made them a perfect fit.
This post was edited on 8/31/16 at 1:42 am
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