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re: Bill Simmons nailed it regarding the Brady/Manning argument
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:40 pm to VerlanderBEAST
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:40 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
It will be remembered as Brady has the better team, while Manning is the better QB
no, it will be remembered that one was the stats champ and the other was the winner
quote:
In what way?
in pretty much every way. Compare the rosters, Denver has better talent at almost every position.
2
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:42 pm to VerlanderBEAST
manning was carried to a super bowl in 2006 his numbers in the post season were 3td to 7 int, and brady has almost never had the overall weapons that manning had except for a few years.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:42 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Brady's #1 WR in New England this year would be Manning's #4 WR in Denver.
To even suggest that Manning is playing with inferior talent on that Broncos squad is asinine.
To even suggest that Manning is playing with inferior talent on that Broncos squad is asinine.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:43 pm to VerlanderBEAST
really? name Denver's receivers. now name new england's. which list was easier to compile?
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:43 pm to cfbfan#1
the only time he did have elite receivers, he went 18-1 and lost the Super Bowl on a fluke drive
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:44 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
In what way? The Pats have better players in every area except the one the QB has an effect on.
Lulz at using that as a description of the passing attack. Let's completely discount who they're throwing it to.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:45 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
To even suggest that Manning is playing with inferior talent on that Broncos squad is asinine.
I can't decide if we're getting trolled or not.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:45 pm to VerlanderBEAST
It's all generational.
Each era has their best.
Unitas, Montana, Elway, Manning and Brady - saying you can't have a GOAT argument w/o them is at least spot on.
Each era has their best.
Unitas, Montana, Elway, Manning and Brady - saying you can't have a GOAT argument w/o them is at least spot on.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:46 pm to FootballNostradamus
it's verlanderbeast. obviously a troll
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:48 pm to TH03
I am okay with putting Manning in a list of the 5 QBs that are in the discussion for greatest of all time from the article.
Unitas, Elway, Montana, Brady, Manning.
That's an elite list.
But if I'm playing a playoff game in January, I'm picking all four of the others as my QB before Peyton.
I mean shite, right now at this very moment, what is the confidence he's gonna play really well this weekend?
When Montana had a bad playoff game, it was shocking.
When Manning does it's like, oh yeah, that's what Peyton does, I forgot.
Unitas, Elway, Montana, Brady, Manning.
That's an elite list.
But if I'm playing a playoff game in January, I'm picking all four of the others as my QB before Peyton.
I mean shite, right now at this very moment, what is the confidence he's gonna play really well this weekend?
When Montana had a bad playoff game, it was shocking.
When Manning does it's like, oh yeah, that's what Peyton does, I forgot.
This post was edited on 1/17/14 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:55 pm to extremetigerfanatic
Yeah...agree...if we're all being honest and going off of experience.
Nobody is picking Manning for the playoffs with their life on the line from that list.
Montana - obvious - he's the greatest playoff QB of all time and GOAT Super Bowl QB.
Unitas..
Brady - Elway?
Manning...he's riding the pine.
This post was edited on 1/17/14 at 11:56 pm
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:27 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
no, it will be remembered that one was the stats champ and the other was the winner
Stats the accolades are about individual performance, Manning is the better QB, Brady plays on the better team. It really isn't that hard to understand
quote:
Compare the rosters, Denver has better talent at almost every position.
So its just coincidence that all Denvers better talent is performing worse in all areas except the one the QB effects? Is that what you are trying to sell me?
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:32 am to NawlinsTiger9
I am completely biased, so take this with a grain of salt.
Manning is undeniably the better player. He is the prototypical pocket passer, he can dissect a defense. His accuracy is elite at every level and he used to have a big arm.
Brady does not have the physical gifts Manning does. Yes, they can both dissect defenses unlike any quarterback before or since, but Brady does not have elite accuracy on his deep balls.
I personally believe Brady has the ultimate passion for the game. You can tell how much he cares, how hard he is on himself, and how it rubs off on his teammates. I don't think Brady is the better player, but I think he's the better quarterback. I think his intangibles more than add up to the lesser physical gifts.
He is willing to sacrifice anything to win, and I think that's what sets him and Manning apart.
Manning is undeniably the better player. He is the prototypical pocket passer, he can dissect a defense. His accuracy is elite at every level and he used to have a big arm.
Brady does not have the physical gifts Manning does. Yes, they can both dissect defenses unlike any quarterback before or since, but Brady does not have elite accuracy on his deep balls.
I personally believe Brady has the ultimate passion for the game. You can tell how much he cares, how hard he is on himself, and how it rubs off on his teammates. I don't think Brady is the better player, but I think he's the better quarterback. I think his intangibles more than add up to the lesser physical gifts.
He is willing to sacrifice anything to win, and I think that's what sets him and Manning apart.
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:33 am to sugar71
quote:
That loud mouth needs to keep Wilt's name out of his mouth.
Jerry West is 1-9 in NBA Finals & is called Mr. Clutch.
Wilt's 'teams' won 2 Rings (carrying dreadful West to his only &1)
Dont ever refer to Jerry West as dreadful
quote:
West holds the NBA record for highest scoring average in a playoff series when he averaged 46.3 points in the six-game division finals series against Baltimore in 1965. During the 1965 playoffs, West averaged 40.6 points in 11 games.
quote:
Of course with a nickname like Mr. Clutch, West elevated his game in the playoffs, averaging 29.1 points per game in 153 playoffs games. His average ranks 3rd on all time list behind Michael Jordan (33.4) and Allen Iverson (29.7)
quote:
West is the only player in NBA history to win NBA Finals MVP from the losing team (1969 Finals)
quote:
Career Playoff Stats: 29.1 PPG 5.6 RPG 6.3 APG
Finals Stats: 30.5 PPG* (only finals stats available)
Finals Appearances: 9
Championships: 1
Finals MVPs Won: 1 (1969)
Yes, nine appearances and only one win, but "Mr. Clutch" can't take all the blame. He had Elgin Baylor and Wilt Chamberlain for most of those losses, not to mention the dynasty in Boston. West made multiple clutch shots in the 1962 Finals vs. the Celtics, but was one-upped by Bill Russell and Sam Jones after each basket and the Lakers lost in 7. During the 1969 Finals, Lakers owner Jack Kent Cooke ordered balloons to be hung from the rafters before Game 7, giving Russell's old Celtics some much-needed motivation. The Lakers lost despite West's triple-double (42 points, 13 rebounds and 12 assists). The Logo became the only player to win Finals MVP in a losing effort.
In the 1970 Finals vs. New York, Jerry hit a 60-foot jumper that tied the game at 102-102 to send Game 3 in OT after Dave DeBusschere hit a J with three seconds left. The Lakers lost in 7.
Here is what West did the year he was the Finals MVP, which is again the only time a player from the losing team has actually won that award:
quote:
Finals stats: 37.9 PPG, 7.4 APG, 4.7 RPG
It was fitting that in the first year of the Finals MVP award's existence, its winner would make history. Despite his incredible performance, Jerry West was unable to guide his Lakers team past the Celtics in a classic seven game series. West's 37.9 points per game average was a record that stood until 1993, and he remains the only player from the losing team ever to win the award.
Game 7, in particular, demonstrated just how great The Logo was; he posted a triple-double of 42 points, 13 rebounds, and 12 assists, keeping his team in the game despite the fact that he was battling a hamstring pull and Wilt Chamberlain was inexplicably riding the bench late in the fourth quarter. The agonizing loss in the Finals was West's seventh, although he would finally get his elusive title three years later.
Before West won a ring, here are his averages from the NBA Finals that the Lakers lost, (where box scores are available):
quote:
1965 Finals: Lost in 5 games to the Celtics
Averaged 33.8 points a game, including 33 points in Game 5
quote:
1966 Finals: Lost in 7 games to the Celtics
Averaged 33.9 PPG, (on 51.5% shooting), and 5.2 APG, including 36 points in Game 7
quote:
1968 Finals: Lost in 6 games to the Celtics
Averaged 31.3 PPG, including 22 points in Game 6
quote:
1969 Finals: Lost in 7 games to the Celtics
Averaged 37.9 PPG, 7.4 APG, 4.7 RPG, including 42 points in Game 7
quote:
1970 Finals: Lost in 7 games to the Knicks
Averaged 31.3 PPG, including 28 points in Game 7
So in those 5 NBA Finals that the Lakers lost, (covering 32 games), West "only" averaged 33.7 points a game.
In the 5 elimination games, he averaged 32.2 points.
But you are right. Jerry West was "dreadful" in the playoffs. How dare anyone call him Mr. Clutch
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:36 am to SPEEDY
Great post.
Boston Garden gave Jerry West a standing ovation in one of his finals losses to the Celtics.
The Lakers - before Wilt - were a two man team...West and Baylor.
They were out-maned in most of those finals against the Celtics.
West never disappeared in big games. He simply lost. Putting forth gallant efforts.
Which is why he was revered.
Boston Garden gave Jerry West a standing ovation in one of his finals losses to the Celtics.
The Lakers - before Wilt - were a two man team...West and Baylor.
They were out-maned in most of those finals against the Celtics.
West never disappeared in big games. He simply lost. Putting forth gallant efforts.
Which is why he was revered.
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:36 am to Jcorye1
quote:Playing bad and still winning =/= sacrifice
He is willing to sacrifice anything to win, and I think that's what sets him and Manning apart.
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:36 am to SPEEDY
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:42 am to NawlinsTiger9
Here is something that I don't get. Bart Starr actually won 5 championships under Lombardi. Why does he get no credit and Lombardi get 100% of the credit? Meanwhile, Brady has the amazing fortune to play under the only coach in NFL history who can lay claim to being better than Lombardi, and yet Brady seems to get 100% of the credit. How does this make any sense to anyone? I mean we all know Brady was just a role guy in his only super bowl victories, even throwing for just 145 yards in his first one. Manning took over the worst team as a rookie (#1 overall draft pick, after all) under a coach who had never one a playoff game, much less a super bowl. Manning has been the focus from day one while Brady has not. There seems to have been a ton of revisionist history since Brady's great 2007 season about how significant Brady was to the previous 3 super bowl teams.
I am not saying Brady is not great because he is clearly a very good QB. I think years of tutelage under the GOAT coach is the primary reason. But the credit given to Brady for his super bowl victories is mind boggling. Why does Eli not get the same credit for his two victories or Ben Roethlisberger for that matter?
I am not saying Brady is not great because he is clearly a very good QB. I think years of tutelage under the GOAT coach is the primary reason. But the credit given to Brady for his super bowl victories is mind boggling. Why does Eli not get the same credit for his two victories or Ben Roethlisberger for that matter?
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:52 am to LeonPhelps
quote:
Bart Starr actually won 5 championships under Lombardi. Why does he get no credit and Lombardi get 100% of the credit?
He's in the Pro Football Hall of Fame
His jersey was retired by the Green Bay Packers
He's rated as the 51st greatest player of all-time by NFL.com
He was on the NFL's 1960s All-Decade team
And he's in the Packers Hall of Fame
How does he not get any credit?
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:57 am to RollTide1987
quote:
How does he not get any credit?
You answered your own question.
quote:
He's rated as the 51st greatest player of all-time by NFL.com
Why so low with so many championships? I thought the QB was the sole reason a team wins it all?
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