- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Astros Drama Continues......
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:11 pm to Prominentwon
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:11 pm to Prominentwon
Lunhiw may be fired before the Draft next hear anyway.
0
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:31 pm to tduecen
I thought the Astros were a model organization?
bunch of frickin tards.
bunch of frickin tards. 
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:34 pm to MOT
quote:
I wish someone would ask Boras to expand on the comment he made about the way Close handled the situation. But it isn't any fun for writers to speculate that side may have done something stupid.
I could tell you what he meant. He NEVER would have agreed to an under-slot deal in the first place. Aiken was the consensus #1 talent in the draft - why should he take under-slot?
Aiken's agent bears a lot of the responsibility here.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:46 pm to Overbrook
There are plenty of people stuck on stupid if they think the Astros "being cheap" had anything to do with this situation. What they decided to do to rebuild and the Aiken affair are not related.
Houston was ready to give him $6.5 million, allowing them to also get a value 5th rounder in Nix with the money that the rules ALLOW them to spend without losing future draft picks.
Then, it is found out that Aiken has this UCL issue. So the Astros decided that they would lower the offer to Aiken. Why? Because the choice became taking the risk on Aiken and getting both Nix and another Top 100 prospect in 21st rounder Marshall with the remaining money pool. Houston wanted to spend ALL of the money they are ALLOWED to spend according to MLB rules.
Why didn't the Astros give in here? Because the rules said they didn't have to take the risk on Aiken just to be nice. They get the #2 overall pick next year plus their own first rounder. It's a virtual do-over, and any organization with a brain would have done the same thing.
The Astros did not plan some elaborate bait-and-switch. Teams are not permitted to require a physical until they draft a player (again, those are the rules), so they didn't know they were getting potentially damaged goods.
Luhnow did the right thing. Get three top 100 prospects with one hurt or take the do-over. You can hate what Houston has done to rebuild, but they were dead-on in this case.
Houston was ready to give him $6.5 million, allowing them to also get a value 5th rounder in Nix with the money that the rules ALLOW them to spend without losing future draft picks.
Then, it is found out that Aiken has this UCL issue. So the Astros decided that they would lower the offer to Aiken. Why? Because the choice became taking the risk on Aiken and getting both Nix and another Top 100 prospect in 21st rounder Marshall with the remaining money pool. Houston wanted to spend ALL of the money they are ALLOWED to spend according to MLB rules.
Why didn't the Astros give in here? Because the rules said they didn't have to take the risk on Aiken just to be nice. They get the #2 overall pick next year plus their own first rounder. It's a virtual do-over, and any organization with a brain would have done the same thing.
The Astros did not plan some elaborate bait-and-switch. Teams are not permitted to require a physical until they draft a player (again, those are the rules), so they didn't know they were getting potentially damaged goods.
Luhnow did the right thing. Get three top 100 prospects with one hurt or take the do-over. You can hate what Houston has done to rebuild, but they were dead-on in this case.
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 3:48 pm
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:49 pm to Jwho77
:kige:
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:53 pm to Overbrook
quote:
I could tell you what he meant. He NEVER would have agreed to an under-slot deal in the first place. Aiken was the consensus #1 talent in the draft - why should he take under-slot?
Maybe, but it isn't like the original offer was unfair or unreasonable. I'm wondering if he meant he would have been in front of the situation and not let the Astros discover it on their own.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:54 pm to Jwho77
quote:Yet they are since all of those picks were supposed to be part of a rebuild....
What they decided to do to rebuild and the Aiken affair are not related.
quote:Yet it is another kid who is technically a year away from the majors and since most kids spend 2-4 years in the minors this one will be 3-5 years out.
They get the #2 overall pick next year plus their own first rounder. It's a virtual do-over, and any organization with a brain would have done the same thing.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:55 pm to MOT
I'm willing to bet he didn't see it as an issue since (from my understanding) he has always had the "issue"
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:56 pm to Jwho77
quote:
There are plenty of people stuck on stupid if they think the Astros "being cheap" had anything to do with this situation. What they decided to do to rebuild and the Aiken affair are not related.
Houston was ready to give him $6.5 million, allowing them to also get a value 5th rounder in Nix with the money that the rules ALLOW them to spend without losing future draft picks.
I get that but it was premised on Aiken signing under slot. Scott Boras would never have agreed pre-draft or post draft being paid under slot.
It's not a matter of the Astros being cheap in a macro sense. It's a matter of the Astros trying to get more talent for their money As I said in other posts, if they astros want to save money on #1 tosign and draft overslot players in later rounds, then they need to reach in their #1 slot, like the Cubs did, to be safe.
In the end, the Astros get near full compensation next year.
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 7/19/14 at 3:59 pm to tduecen
quote:
I'm willing to bet he didn't see it as an issue since (from my understanding) he has always had the "issue"
That's obvious at this point. I think what Boras may have meant is he would have been aware of it, brought it to the table up front, and had a strong supporting argument as to why it shouldn't impact their negotiations. As opposed to the Astros finding it, then just saying "oh that's nothing, no big deal".
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:00 pm to tduecen
quote:
What they decided to do to rebuild and the Aiken affair are not related.
Yet they are since all of those picks were supposed to be part of a rebuild....
Yet it is another kid who is technically a year away from the majors and since most kids spend 2-4 years in the minors this one will be 3-5 years out
Who is to say they won't go with a college pitcher or two this time. They will be more advanced and likely reach the majors much faster.
Also, this Astros farm system is not in a vacuum, but it is certainly not thin either. By June 2015, their organizational needs may be quite different. They may be looking for bats with the highest picks. They may target two or three guys later in the draft for similar Nix/Marshall deals since they will again have a big overall pool with which to work.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:01 pm to MOT
Bingo. And I actually agree with biras.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:02 pm to MOT
At the rate of Tommy John surgery, every team ought to assume that their young pitchers will eventually have it. I mean how many pitchers from this class had Tommy John surgery last year, wasn't it like 3 who got drafted in first 3 rounds?
Someone mentioned he may come back with less velocity, well a lefty who can still throw 90-92 is a great prospect. Especially if the GM believed everything he said about him leading up to the draft and once they drafted him.
Someone mentioned he may come back with less velocity, well a lefty who can still throw 90-92 is a great prospect. Especially if the GM believed everything he said about him leading up to the draft and once they drafted him.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:03 pm to Jwho77
quote:Like Appel?
Who is to say they won't go with a college pitcher or two this time. They will be more advanced and likely reach the majors much faster.
quote:You can never have enough pitching... Don't care what team it is... Astros will probably be drafting a pitcher early again next year
Also, this Astros farm system is not in a vacuum, but it is certainly not thin either. By June 2015, their organizational needs may be quite different. They may be looking for bats with the highest picks. They may target two or three guys later in the draft for similar Nix/Marshall deals since they will again have a big overall pool with which to work.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:06 pm to Jwho77
Agree completely. Anyone who says otherwise doesnt know what theyre talking about. Im just pissed, we needed something good to happen. Hell, I dont care about Marshall and Nix is not some first rounder that slipped. But a 17 year old lefty this advanced was exciting.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:08 pm to Jwho77
The Astros decided they valued the #2 in a year more than they valued Aiken and Nicks NOW, with a whole extra year of professional development in their system.
Nevermind that the "issues" they ran into about being blind to any possible medical problems are going to be there when they take the #2 pick blind again next year.
I guess that makes sense, but its very far from cut and dried. The Astros FO is a prime example of planning to suck being great for job security. Nobody will know if the plan has serious merit or if the people in charge are the right people to execute it until they've been in the job for almost decade.
Nevermind that the "issues" they ran into about being blind to any possible medical problems are going to be there when they take the #2 pick blind again next year.
I guess that makes sense, but its very far from cut and dried. The Astros FO is a prime example of planning to suck being great for job security. Nobody will know if the plan has serious merit or if the people in charge are the right people to execute it until they've been in the job for almost decade.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:10 pm to Overbrook
quote:
I get that but it was premised on Aiken signing under slot. Scott Boras would never have agreed pre-draft or post draft being paid under slot. Maybe they would have not negotiated it if Boras was the agent, but Boras has implied he would not have kept the UCL issue under wraps either.
So they took a top prospect who agreed to the money they wanted. They planned to use it on a guy like Nix. What organization would not have angled for that if they could arrange it? And
quote:
It's not a matter of the Astros being cheap in a macro sense. It's a matter of the Astros trying to get more talent for their money
It is a matter of the Astros getting the most talent they can in the draft alone for the money they are allowed to spend without forfeiting future draft picks. The Red Sox or Yankees would have tried to do the same thing if they were in that position.
quote:
if they astros want to save money on #1 tosign and draft overslot players in later rounds, then they need to reach in their #1 slot, like the Cubs did, to be safe.
No they didn't have to reach. They had a deal in place to grab Aiken - who no one argued was not a worthy 1.1 - and have money to sign Nix as well. They were "safe" as you can be, assuming 1.1 does not have a hidden medical issue. He did. Houston did not want to gamble on just him and Nix; they would have gambled on him, Nix and Marshall.
quote:
In the end, the Astros get near full compensation next year.
Which is why the Astros did exactly the right thing. Aiken is the one who is gambling on himself. If doctors with concerns are right, he may never earn that $5 million back by playing baseball. He thinks he is going to be an All-Star, right? Well, he will make tens of millions of dollars if he is. But to have the insurance of making $5 million no matter what and passing it up because it's not $6.5M is a real risk; he had better be right about his UCL.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:13 pm to tduecen
quote:
Like Appel?
Um, there is risk with every pick. But high injury risk is a little different from a pick just not living up to the hype. It happens all the time.
quote:
You can never have enough pitching... Don't care what team it is... Astros will probably be drafting a pitcher early again next year
Yes, of course. I threw out hypotheticals. Anything is in play.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:16 pm to tduecen
quote:
At the rate of Tommy John surgery, every team ought to assume that their young pitchers will eventually have it. I mean how many pitchers from this class had Tommy John surgery last year, wasn't it like 3 who got drafted in first 3 rounds?
A lot of people come back strong from the surgery but it isn't like they can predict exactly how he would respond, how it would impact his development, etc. Predicting what he'll be down the road is already tough enough, and they thought whatever his issue is complicates it even more. It isn't like they think he's worthless now, they just weren't as certain on his future as they were before.
And the original point goes back to what Boras would have done differently. He also may think it's a non issue, but he probably would have been in front of it and not let it be discovered at the last minute.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:17 pm to CrippleCreek
quote:
The Astros decided they valued the #2 in a year more than they valued Aiken and Nicks NOW, with a whole extra year of professional development in their system.
Nevermind that the "issues" they ran into about being blind to any possible medical problems are going to be there when they take the #2 pick blind again next year.
I guess that makes sense, but its very far from cut and dried.
Even with the Appel troubles, the Astros system is pitching deep. They valued #2 next year over a medically shaky #1 overall. the medical issues matter because they would have signed Aiken and Nix if NOT for those issues.
quote:
The Astros FO is a prime example of planning to suck being great for job security. Nobody will know if the plan has serious merit or if the people in charge are the right people to execute it until they've been in the job for almost decade.
Arguably true. But that has nothing to do with making the best decision available in the Aiken case.
"Rebuilding is taking too long! Take the risk!" That's like saying "throw gasoline on the fire" when you have a bucket of water nearby.
Page 3 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News