re: AD forces Brian Kelly to fire defensive coordinator Brian VanGorder

quote:

---

In the context of every team and every game on TV now, not just a couple games.

I'm not talking about individual team TV ratings per se.

There was a time when your choices to watch games on TV were limited, and Notre Dame was certainly always one of the choices. Now, every team is on Tv and every team gets an opportunity to showcase its program. The whole landscape of college football and TV and "spreading the wealth" has had a slow erosion on the Notre Dame brand is all I'm saying. Others have caught up, and in some cases, passed Notre Dame, in the context of Branding and sexiness and curb appeal.

I just see Notre dame more as a priceless historical landmark that's nice to keep an eye on and visit every now and then than I do as a major player in today's more diverse and spread out college football landscape. There was certainly a time when ND was the big dog on the block, but they aren't anymore, they're just one of many big dogs, and quite a few of those dogs are bigger now. And the process of that happening and the reasons behind it aren't reversing course and this slow passed by as a brand is only going to continue.

---

You're not entirely wrong, and I think any ND fan who underestimates just how much our brand has taken a hit over the past couple of decades is fooling themselves.

However, it is still an extremely powerful brand and extraordinarily lucrative. It was, by quite a bit, the most expensive ticket on the secondary market coming into this year of any program in the country. It's just not the only truly national brand like it was thirty years ago. Alabama, SC, Ohio State, and the like all carry a lot more national cache than they did a generation ago.

We can still recruit really well. Kelly had the #3 overall class just a few years ago - and that's not even taking into account, mind you, that ND typically takes 3 to 5 fewer kids every year than most SEC programs, OSU, and so forth. Charlie fricking Weis had a #1 overall class. We've put a lot of guys into the NFL in recent years, and quite a few have done very well. The access to talent and talent production is there.

The program, more than anything, lost its strategic direction over the last twenty years. Failing to lock down Urban Meyer in 2004 was, in retrospect, a program-altering mistake. Kevin White just got plain schooled by Jeremy Foley. Like any major organization, a football program has to recognize its inherent organizational strengths and weaknesses and build around that. We've been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole for twenty years, and it doesn't work. There just hasn't been any vision for the program, and it's been mostly viewed as a major cash cow for the university trying to milk it dry.

What we should be - which is a better, more athletic version of Harbaugh/Shaw era Stanford - compared to what we've been under Davie/Willingham/Weis/Kelly - a fundamentally unsound, undisciplined, erratic, unfocused program - are leagues apart. We need physicality and discipline and focus, and it's just not there and hasn't been there for a good long while. We have access to the talent.

ND recently faced a major fork in the road in the development of the program when it came to the decision to develop Crossroads (the half-billion dollar stadium renovation) or not. It was either go all in (go forward with the stadium renovation, build a second indoor facility, further renovations to practice and training facilities, etc.) or go all out (Ivy League style). The Board of Trustees and administration decided to go all in. We are in this thing 110% now, no holds barred. I think Swarbrick (our AD) is a pretty damn sharp and competent guy, and I actually do trust him to make some good decisions here. We shall see.

I don't really have an opinion or care either way on Notre Dame joining a football conference, but in the context of relevance and "connection" to the rest of CFB, I really think joining a conference would do Notre Dame a lot of good. I do not know the dollars and cents bottom line to it, but I do believe it would help to bring Notre Dame "back into the fold" at least in terms of brand power. I think the Independent thing has run its course.... Back in the day, you either loved Notre Dame or hated NotreDame. I think the "hate" has slowly eroded (which is ironically a bad thing for ND) and the average CFB fan is pretty apathetic towards Notre Dame because there's no connection to Notre Dame anymore.

quote:

---

I don't really have an opinion or care either way on Notre Dame joining a football conference, but in the context of relevance and "connection" to the rest of CFB, I really think joining a conference would do Notre Dame a lot of good. I do not know the dollars and cents bottom line to it, but I do believe it would help to bring Notre Dame "back into the fold" at least in terms of brand power. I think the Independent thing has run its course.... Back in the day, you either loved Notre Dame or hated NotreDame. I think the "hate" has slowly eroded (which is ironically a bad thing for ND) and the average CFB fan is pretty apathetic towards Notre Dame because there's no connection to Notre Dame anymore.

---

That's an entirely separate discussion that probably deserves its own thread, but I think you'd find most intelligent ND fans would thoroughly disagree.

What significant brand cache we still have is very much due to our independence. We can play a truly national schedule in all corners of the country, aren't limited by conference television contracts (like CBS and the SEC), and can market where and when we want.

Joining a conference really did not do Penn State and Miami (to name two formerly major independents) any favors. One became just another blah Midwestern Big Ten program, and the other became just another soft, elitist private ACC program. Pitt is another, if you want a third example.

I would actually argue that the current financial paradigm for conferences is not sustainable, and football independence will look like an increasingly attractive option to more programs as the sport evolves. It makes no economic or strategic sense for Texas to be tethered to Iowa State, for example. Or for Bama and Florida and LSU to be tethered to Vandy or Mississippi State. The difference between the value of the programs and the actual income (because of the contracts) is immense. The conference network television structure will almost certainly fail in a lot of the country as cord-cutting and a la carte progress. That's without even diving into why schools like Rutgers would share one single cultural and strategic goal with a school like Nebraska (or Missouri/Florida or Boston College/Florida State, etc, etc).

So, Les to ND at the end of this season?

Of course BK should be fired. Does anybody think he will win a NC at Notre Dame in the next couple of years? I don't, not with his style of football. Offense can put up points but is inconsistent and makes too many mistakes. Defense can't stop anybody and that isn't going to get it done.

The standard at ND is winning NC and playing in big bowl games. Joke about it but that is the standard and ND should go get the guy that will get them there.

Yeah, I initially thought Abu was delusional early in this thread because I'm thinking, are they really going to do much better than BK? It seemed natural having a fiery Irish guy in there, but the style may not be a good fit, and he seems to be uncomfortable under the microscope. Bottom line, BK is a good coach, but probably needs to be somewhere else a little lower profile. It's easy to be a swinging dick at CMU or Cincy, not so much at ND.

Funny how timing works out. I would have killed for BK (and Les!) at Michigan, but it just didn't quite work for when he was available -- I also read at some point that Michigan had concerns about BK's drinking or something.

ND is playing with some fire by getting rid of him, though. Michigan eventually lucked out with Harbaugh, but it took a lot of pain to get to the point where they could get him there. Could be a decade of 6-6 football coming. I wouldn't bail on him for one bad season, but if these are systemic problems, then that's an issue.

This guy has coached at 9 colleges, 4 high schools and 3 NFL teams over the past 35 years never staying at a place longer than 4 seasons.

Agree with everything you're saying. If a school like Stanford can have great success, then so can ND. I still believe they can be elite, just not on a yearly basis like they used to be.

quote:

---

So, Les to ND at the end of this season?

---

Holy shite. That would be a great fit. Great character guy, can recruit, national figure. Is Les Catholic?

quote:

---

Pop quiz. What year was this picture taken? 2011 or 1981?

---

Trick question...LIVEFEED