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re: A little LeBron James stat i saw on twitter
Posted on 5/18/17 at 2:40 pm to redfishfan
Posted on 5/18/17 at 2:40 pm to redfishfan
quote:
The Bulls went to the ECF without MJ.
Why do some of you keep saying this? It just shows you don't know what you're talking about. The Bulls didn't go to the ECF without Jordan. They lost in 7 games to the Knicks in the second round.
0
Posted on 5/18/17 at 2:41 pm to AjaxFury
quote:Same amount that Jordan won without him?
And how many championships did the "2nd best player" win (he wasn't) without Jordan.
quote:Yep, and MJ won zero without Pippen too, so what's your point?
The answer is zero
quote:This coming from the guy who admits to wanting less information to make decisions, as well as arguing that MJ had worst supporting casts compared to LeBron. That's rich.
Shel, you make the most asinine arguments sometimes.
Still waiting for you to tell me which season the East's 4 seed had a losing record in the LeBron years. Which season was that?
quote:He was drafted there. His best friends played on the team he went to. Then he went back home to the team he was drafted.
Why do you think Lebron stayed in the East.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 2:41 pm to shel311
I was just pointing out that the Bulls didn't make it back to the ECF until 2011... in fact, I believe that was the ONLY time that the Bulls have ever been there without MJ.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 2:43 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:1. Why wouldn't he? MJ does
dude one of the big talking points the old timers use is how lebron wouldn't get the calls that he does today
2. Who the hell is saying LeBron gets the calls? There's a lot of Shaq/Howard-ness to his game, where he's so strong, some obvious fouls don't get called because they don't do the same "damage" to any other player.
Look at his rate of shooting in the paint compared to his FT rate, hard to argue he benefits so much from foul calls.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 2:44 pm to shel311
quote:
Bosh very likely gets in, but he can thank LeBron for that.
If you watched the 2008 Olympics, Bosh was the 2nd best player on that team at worst. Who did Bosh have with him on Toronto? He avg 24/11 & drug them to a 4 seed manning the post.
If Love was in the East, it likely would of been the same outcome- a 25/15 guy that missed the playoffs despite having about 50 wins, which would of been good enough for a 4 seed.
He dominated the post as the main guy like Bosh & had no help. Both those guys sacrificed their elite post game to accommodate Lebron.
You think Horace Grant or Rodman would average 23/13 if they were the main guy? Of course not. Neither had the offensive gifts that Love & Bosh had.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 2:46 pm to shel311
quote:
MJ had the next best player in the entire NBA.
Pippen absolutely was not the 2nd best player in the league the first three championships. Doubt anyone would actually believe that. It wasn't until the first year Jordan stepped away that Pippen really emerged as a superstar, and still finished 3rd in the MVP that year. The second three championships, you might could argue that he was the 2nd best, top 5 for sure.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 2:53 pm to shel311
quote:
Paxson/Kerr/Armstrong...all on the same level as those 2 are this year.
Really....?.... Paxson/Kerr/Armstrong were perennial all stars and Olympic gold medalists?
You forgot Deron in his prime was discussed with Chris Paul as best PG in the NBA for several years? Now you're just trolling. You forgot former 6th man of the year JR Smith he has too. I guess that balances out Kukoc. Hell, Lebron tried to resurrect late-Shaq to be his Kareem! He acts like he never has enough help in that lousy conference. The Kukoc who got absolutely SHUT DOWN by Jordan & Pippen in the Olympics-- he couldn't get a shot off against them. That goes to show you how big of a drop off in talent between the GOAT & the 6th man of the NBA , Toni Kukoc.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 3:28 pm to shel311
quote:
Also, you do realize what happened the year after MJ's 1st retirement, right? 55 win team, now THAT is a stacked deck. No team LeBron has ever played on would have sniffed 55 wins without him, so how do you counter that?
WHAT!?
STACKED??!? B.J Armstrong?
Corie Blount?
Bill Cartwright?
JoJo English?
Horace Grant!
Dave Johnson?
Steve Kerr?
Stacey King?
Toni Kukoc!
Luc Longley?
Pete Myers?
John Paxson?
Will Perdue?
Scottie Pippen!
Bill Wennington?
Scott Williams?
****************************
L-OH-FRICKIN-L.
That team was worse than Lebron's '07 team (who went 45-37 in a weak conf).
Pippen didn't have a 20 PPG center like Ilgauskas. Kukoc & Donyell Marshall had similar scoring. LBJ also had:
Szerbiak, who was a starter & all star for MIN in '03. (Sniper)
Ben Wallace (DPOY, REB/BLK leader NBA champ '04 Pistons)
Anderson Varejao (rookie/solid)
Larry Hughes (avg 18 PPG in '03 & top 5 steals)
Drew Gooden (solid)
Joe Smith (solid def post vet that blocked shots, fmr #1 overall)
Daniel Gibson (high 3 pt% sniper off bench)
Eric Snow (starting PG 2000 76ers Finals team, veteran defensive high IQ leader)
quote:
so how do you counter that?
Lebron underachieved compared to the talent Pippen had w/out Jordan, which was awful. As you can see hear, LBJ's team was FAR SUPERIOR, having several all stars from just a few years prior.
Pippen had more guys no one even heard of, than guys that were well known, & still got 55 wins. A legendary 2 way player with a HOF coach to put them in best position to succeed. Lebron was 4 years into the league, & Pippen 6 years into it, so experience is almost a wash.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 3:32 pm to AjaxFury
On the subject of team and opposing team strength this realgm poster did a fairly in depth statistical analysis of star players, their surrounding casts, and the relative strength of their opposition.
quote:
Overall, there it is very clear that once a player has superstar impact him winning titles or not correlates _extremely_ well with the quality of his supporting cast and has almost no correlation with the variation in his personal performance (yes, there are counter-examples, but this is the overall-view.
It’s pretty clear that despite all the nonsense about LeBron having it easy he seems to be the player with the hardest-won titles, followed by Hakeem, while KAJ’s, MJ’s and TD’s titles were relatively low-hanging fruit on average mostly due to their strong (and well-performing) supporting casts.
quote:
it would be just as stupid to punish MJ for having no barely beatable matchups during his final runs as it is to punish LeBron for having more unbeatable ones. So this doesn’t say anything against MJ for instance – he never lost a winnable series (outside of 1995) and surely also would have won those rings with tougher matchups (up to a certain point obviously). But to use his 6 rings as a discussion-ending argument over LBJ just doesn’t make sense.
The variation in play between MJ, LBJ, KAJ's individual seasons is minuscule compared to the variation in play of their supporting casts. All this should be obvious anyway, but hopefully the stats and graphs might bring it home for some who were not able (or willing) to grasp that.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 3:34 pm to Tigerfan56
quote:
Definitely 100% due to more veteran teams being tired from playing a shorter season
The shorter season took more of a toll on the body b/c they rarely had more than 1 day rest between games. You're being obtuse. Older players in their mid 30s need significantly more times between games to recoup than younger players. It's biology. That's not a narrative any pro has disputed.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 3:42 pm to AjaxFury
quote:
Szerbiak, who was a starter & all star for MIN in '03. (Sniper)
Ben Wallace (DPOY, REB/BLK leader NBA champ '04 Pistons)
Anderson Varejao (rookie/solid)
Larry Hughes (avg 18 PPG in '03 & top 5 steals)
Drew Gooden (solid)
Joe Smith (solid def post vet that blocked shots, fmr #1 overall)
Daniel Gibson (high 3 pt% sniper off bench)
Eric Snow (starting PG 2000 76ers Finals team, veteran defensive high IQ leader)
Most of these dudes were washed up by then. Big Z never averaged 20 per game and was well past his prime. Joe Smith sucked and wasn't even on that '07 team. Neither was Ben Wallace who was also done by then. How do you think they were able to get all of these players in the first place? Every player listed there besides Varejao was either out of the league or just barely hanging on within three years.
Didn't notice Drew Gooden there until just now. Dude was an absolute joke of a player who played for almost half the teams in the league. Outside of one decent year with Washington he was always either a last resort or some team's tank commander.
This post was edited on 5/18/17 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 5/18/17 at 3:46 pm to AjaxFury
quote:The comparison was to 2016 DWill and Korver. Are you saying 2016 Dwill/Korver are good enough to be on an Olympic team?
Really....?.... Paxson/Kerr/Armstrong were perennial all stars and Olympic gold medalists?
quote:That's great, and irrelevant because he's not in his prime.
You forgot Deron in his prime was discussed with Chris Paul as best PG in the NBA for several years? Now you're just trolling
quote:What are his numbers this season shooting and last season compared to Paxson/Armstrong/Kerr. Get back to me on that.
You forgot former 6th man of the year JR Smith he has too.
Also, 3rd time...are you going to tell me which season the 4th seed in the East had a losing record?
Posted on 5/18/17 at 3:49 pm to AjaxFury
quote:Wait, you didn't know that after MJ retired, they won 55 games and finished 3rd in the East? How can you be in this conversation and not know that?
WHAT!? STACKED??!?
Now tell me any team in Lebron's career that you can take him off for an entire season and they win 55 games. I'll wait.
You're laughing at me with just a really bad knowledge of the game is hilarious.
quote:Then how'd they win 55 games? You're contradicting yourself so badly. Lebron's team was better in a weaker East but won less games than a Bulls team without MJ. Go ahead and explain that one to me.
That team was worse than Lebron's '07 team
quote:Weakest troll job ever. 22 year old LeBron underachieved with a cast of shite that everyone says is the worst cast(along with AI's) ever taken to the Finals.
Lebron underachieved compared to the talent Pippen had w/out Jordan, which was awful. As you can see hear, LBJ's team was FAR SUPERIOR, having several all stars from just a few years prior.
Run along, Troll.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 3:50 pm to imraged
quote:He should be ignored starting now, he's not even trying any more.
Most of these dudes were washed up by then. Big Z never averaged 20 per game and was well past his prime. Joe Smith sucked and wasn't even on that '07 team. Neither was Ben Wallace who was also done by then. How do you think they were able to get all of these players in the first place? Every player listed there besides Varejao was either out of the league or just barely hanging on within three years.
Didn't notice Drew Gooden there until just now. Dude was an absolute joke of a player who played for almost half the teams in the league. Outside of one decent year with Washington he was always either a last resort or some team's tank commander.
He's Boom level bad right now.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 3:56 pm to imraged
quote:
The Heat were a first round out at best after '06
The Heat repeated as division champs in 2006-2007, & the reigning NBA champs had most of their core intact: Dwyane Wade, Shaq O'Neal, Alonzo Mourning, Eddie Jones, James Posey, Udonis Haslem, Gary Payton, Jason Kapono, Antoine Walker, Jason Williams.
The Bulls (pre-Rose) swept their asses 4-0 with the likes of:
P.J Brown, Ben Gordon, Andreas Nocioni, Luol Deng, Kirk Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas, Thabo Sefolosha, Ben Wallace
Further lends credence to the fact the league rigged the 2005-2006 Finals for the Heat that the Mavs absolutely should have won, except for the fact that the refs let Wade go the the FT line more times than Jordan ever did, suspended Stackhouse, & generally screwed the Mavs on every 50-50 call there was.
The 2002 Kings & 2006 Mavs are the prototype evidence of the league going WWE when it needs to fix its P.R.
If Kobe didn't get accused of rape, & Cuban didn't have an eternal nemesis in David Stern, they wouldn't have gone full retard to manufacture a post-Kobe superstar SG like Wade who was gifted that 0-2 comeback by the zebras. The swept '07 Heat were the same Heat who shocked the world with the same roster a year earlier.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 3:57 pm to shel311
He admitted he was "playing devil's advocate" after the last whooping he received.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 4:02 pm to AjaxFury
You're still here making yourself look like a moron? I'm impressed actually
I'm impressed actually Posted on 5/18/17 at 4:06 pm to shel311
quote:
Now tell me any team in Lebron's career that you can take him off for an entire season and they win 55 games. I'll wait.
It's definitely possible a couple of those Miami teams with Wade and CB could have won 55 games, especially the first two teams before Wade really started showing his age. Yes, they missed the playoffs the year after LeBron, but Bosh was only able to play 44 games that year due to health issues. They certainly don't miss the playoffs if he plays the whole year.
Posted on 5/18/17 at 4:13 pm to shel311
quote:
What year was that?
(Can't remember off top of my head, I know '06-07 heat went 44-38 which was close, I'll see if I can recollect or find it)....meantime.....for perspective...most of the 5-8 seeds for almost a decade did have sub .500 records. The west usually had a #10 & 11 seed that would've gotten in, sometimes a #12)
************************************
A Smart Politics review of NBA seasonal records finds that Eastern Conference teams recorded their worst collective winning percentage during the 2010-2011 season since the six-division era began in 2004-2005.
Overall, the 15 teams that comprise the Eastern Conference compiled a record of 579 wins and 651 losses, or a .471 winning percentage.
That is a drop of 15 games from 2009-2010 (594-636) and 42 games from 2008-2009 (621-609) – the only season in the newly-configured league in which the East has managed a winning record overall.
The previous record low for the East in the six-division era took place in 2007-2008, when the teams in the Atlantic, Central, and Southeast Divisions notched a 582-648 record (.473).
However, despite a reputation for suiting up inferior teams against the West for several years, the East has managed to take home the championship during three of the last seven seasons (in 2004, 2006, and 2008) – despite performing well under .500 as a conference during each of those years.
Overall, nine teams did not have a winning record in the Eastern Conference in the 2010-2011 season compared to six in the West.
Interestingly, the East is home to the team with the best record in the league this year (Chicago, at 62-20), while the West hosts the team with the worst record (Minnesota, at 17-65).
Chicago actually had a slightly higher winning percentage against the West (.767) than it did against the weaker Eastern Conference (.750).
Since the end of the Michael Jordan era in Chicago after the 1997-1998 championship season, the West has won nine of the last 12 championships.
In 2003-2004, when the NBA was last configured in an imbalanced four-division, two-conference alignment (the East had an extra team), the Eastern Conference had a regular season record of 559 wins and 671 losses, or a .454 winning percentage.
*************
Posted on 5/18/17 at 4:19 pm to AjaxFury
quote:Guarantee that "most" didn't have sub 500 records.
for perspective...most of the 5-8 seeds for almost a decade did have sub .500 records
Stop embellishing, it makes you look desperate
quote:1. That's not close.
(Can't remember off top of my head, I know '06-07 heat went 44-38 which was close, I'll see if I can recollect or find it)..
2. I'll save you time from searching, that hasn't happened in the LeBron years.
This post was edited on 5/18/17 at 4:22 pm
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