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re: 1991 was the last year a pac 12 team won the national title
Posted on 9/20/14 at 3:04 pm to Srbtiger06
Posted on 9/20/14 at 3:04 pm to Srbtiger06
except allowing your players to be paid gives the program an advantage in recruiting kids
a high school senior is being recruited by 5 schools visits them and all talks to current players
at 4 of the schools, he asks about getting a little money on the side and the players tell him, "nah, coach is real strict bout the rules. he finds out, you're off the team."
at the last school, he asks and the players tell him, "man, it's great here. coach just turns his head the other way. doesn't care if we gettin paid. and we gettin paid good!"
which school is the recruit going to choose?
and if getting the best talent in the country doesnt make your program better, what does?
a high school senior is being recruited by 5 schools visits them and all talks to current players
at 4 of the schools, he asks about getting a little money on the side and the players tell him, "nah, coach is real strict bout the rules. he finds out, you're off the team."
at the last school, he asks and the players tell him, "man, it's great here. coach just turns his head the other way. doesn't care if we gettin paid. and we gettin paid good!"
which school is the recruit going to choose?
and if getting the best talent in the country doesnt make your program better, what does?
This post was edited on 9/20/14 at 3:06 pm
1
Posted on 9/20/14 at 3:05 pm to Srbtiger06
quote:
A better analogy would be smoking pot and getting a 100. You did something illegal and made a 100, but the illegal act had no bearing on your score.
No.
That is an incredibly shitty analogy.
And of course T03 jumps right in with it.
I won't agree with the validity of the overall analogy, but the one you WANTED to make would be taking an non-prescribed adderal and getting a 100. You did something illegal and made a 100, but you don't know if you couldn't have made an 100 without it anyway.
Posted on 9/20/14 at 3:08 pm to TH03
quote:
vacating wins is a pointless punishment. I saw that season with my own eyes and buying Reggie bush' mom a car didn't help them dominate everyone.
Didn't read the thread so if this has been said, well oh well.
Anyway, I can understand the logic in this argument.. but then I think "what if they knew about the bought car when it had happened? Would Bush have played the season and if not, would So.Cal have dominated?"
Posted on 9/20/14 at 3:44 pm to theGarnetWay
was the last title washington in 91 or colorado in 90?
Posted on 9/20/14 at 3:49 pm to runningTiger
Every title before the playoff was mythical. USC still has two mythical titles from 2003 and 2004.
Washington won the coaches title in 1991. Miami won the AP title.
Washington won the coaches title in 1991. Miami won the AP title.
This post was edited on 9/20/14 at 3:50 pm
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:11 pm to Dr Rosenrosen
the major college conferences together created the bcs to crown one national championship
how is that any different from what they did with the college playoff currently held?
from 1998 to 2014, the bcs was the national championship
other sources, lacking authority from the participants, named their own champs. but the only one that mattered during those 17 years was the bcs.
how is that any different from what they did with the college playoff currently held?
from 1998 to 2014, the bcs was the national championship
other sources, lacking authority from the participants, named their own champs. but the only one that mattered during those 17 years was the bcs.
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:19 pm to TH03
quote:
vacated doesn't mean they didn't go undefeated and destroy the number 2 team.
vacating wins is a pointless punishment. I saw that season with my own eyes and buying Reggie bush' mom a car didn't help them dominate everyone.
This
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:20 pm to runningTiger
quote:
except allowing your players to be paid gives the program an advantage in recruiting kids
a high school senior is being recruited by 5 schools visits them and all talks to current players
at 4 of the schools, he asks about getting a little money on the side and the players tell him, "nah, coach is real strict bout the rules. he finds out, you're off the team."
at the last school, he asks and the players tell him, "man, it's great here. coach just turns his head the other way. doesn't care if we gettin paid. and we gettin paid good!"
which school is the recruit going to choose?
and if getting the best talent in the country doesnt make your program better, what does?
This happens everywhere and the coach doesnt have any influence 99% of the time
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:25 pm to jg8623
how do you know it happens everywhere? such talk is speculation
usc got caught, and the underlying principle behind which the ncaa punished them and took away their national title was there was no institutional control. the lack of institutional control allowed usc to build its program under carroll. in other words, usc wouldn't have done squat if usc had run a clean program.
usc got caught, and the underlying principle behind which the ncaa punished them and took away their national title was there was no institutional control. the lack of institutional control allowed usc to build its program under carroll. in other words, usc wouldn't have done squat if usc had run a clean program.
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:28 pm to runningTiger
quote:
in other words, usc wouldn't have done squat if usc had run a clean program.
could you provide proof that someone, anyone at USC was paying the players. TIA
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:28 pm to runningTiger
quote:
how do you know it happens everywhere? such talk is speculation
How do you know it doesnt?
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:30 pm to runningTiger
quote:
in other words, usc wouldn't have done squat if usc had run a clean program.
Again, just about every big program is not 100% clean... You can say "how do you know" but no one knows they are 100% clean either
ETA: and a lot of the time it isnt the schools involvement. Its damn near impossible to monitor all those football players, coaches, boosters/fans on a 24/7/365 basis
This post was edited on 9/20/14 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:32 pm to runningTiger
Excellent job on the trolling 
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:36 pm to RLDSC FAN
usc didnt have to pay the players directly;
but look the other way is what the ncaa investigators found they did
but look the other way is what the ncaa investigators found they did
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:41 pm to runningTiger
quote:
thats exactly what happened at usc
and as soon as the money stopped going to the players and recruits
usc's program fell apart
LOL if you think it was just that simple and that no players on USCs team has gotten an improper benfit since then
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:41 pm to runningTiger
but this is what you said earlier
so I'm asking you to show me proof that USC was, as you say, paying the players. Show some proof bud, it shouldn't be too hard for you find right?
quote:
paying them is the reason they are on the roster!
how difficult of a concept is this?
so I'm asking you to show me proof that USC was, as you say, paying the players. Show some proof bud, it shouldn't be too hard for you find right?
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:42 pm to RLDSC FAN
I can't believe this is being debated in 2014.
Every article, sportswriters - and hell, the NCAA's own report...refutes everything the OP is spouting.
Based on the actual evidence, everyone has thought the USC punishment was unfair given that no USC coaches were linked to ever giving Bush a benefit...and of course, nothing was ever connected or related to USC regarding recruiting (of which the NCAA acknowledged in their report) -
It was Bush was recruited by wanna be agents AFTER he was very successful at USC and gave his family money to LEAVE USC.
This OP sounds like a Neanderthal who just crawled out from under a rock from 2005. Just stupid and not worth your time.
USC's crime was not paying players or giving players benefits...it was not monitoring "high profile athletes" like Bush and scrutinizing their personal affairs...and running a fun and loose program...which doesn't mean "not clean" - it simply mean't the NCAA thought USC allowed agents to prey on players...which is a joke, because agents are going to prey anyways.
That was the bogus "institutional control" - "high profile athletes demand high profile monitoring"
USC's "crime" was because they didn't audit Bush's family and monitor their living situation way off in San Diego.
The ruling (which I've read) and which sportswriters even disagreed with sternly...
Had nothing connecting USC to any recruiting advantage or paying players themselves.
Unless, you buy the NCAA's argument - that USC had a recruiting advantage by having celebrities on the sidelines...but that (as every sportswriter pointed out - was just sour grapes.)
As one opposing coach told Ivan Maisel -
"USC was punished for their USC-ness, for having success and fun under Carroll - and everyone resented it. We all thought the punishment was a joke. There was no rule you couldn't have Snoop Dog on the sidelines."
So give me a break.
Every article, sportswriters - and hell, the NCAA's own report...refutes everything the OP is spouting.
Based on the actual evidence, everyone has thought the USC punishment was unfair given that no USC coaches were linked to ever giving Bush a benefit...and of course, nothing was ever connected or related to USC regarding recruiting (of which the NCAA acknowledged in their report) -
It was Bush was recruited by wanna be agents AFTER he was very successful at USC and gave his family money to LEAVE USC.
This OP sounds like a Neanderthal who just crawled out from under a rock from 2005. Just stupid and not worth your time.
USC's crime was not paying players or giving players benefits...it was not monitoring "high profile athletes" like Bush and scrutinizing their personal affairs...and running a fun and loose program...which doesn't mean "not clean" - it simply mean't the NCAA thought USC allowed agents to prey on players...which is a joke, because agents are going to prey anyways.
That was the bogus "institutional control" - "high profile athletes demand high profile monitoring"
USC's "crime" was because they didn't audit Bush's family and monitor their living situation way off in San Diego.
The ruling (which I've read) and which sportswriters even disagreed with sternly...
Had nothing connecting USC to any recruiting advantage or paying players themselves.
Unless, you buy the NCAA's argument - that USC had a recruiting advantage by having celebrities on the sidelines...but that (as every sportswriter pointed out - was just sour grapes.)
As one opposing coach told Ivan Maisel -
"USC was punished for their USC-ness, for having success and fun under Carroll - and everyone resented it. We all thought the punishment was a joke. There was no rule you couldn't have Snoop Dog on the sidelines."
So give me a break.
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:42 pm to RLDSC FAN
Im not disagreeing that USC was breaking any rules, just that it goes on all the time and it wasnt like the athletic department was just handing out money to players. They have no control if some rich booster drives by some players apt one night and slips him a couple hundred bucks
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:44 pm to runningTiger
There's more than winning a national championship.
Posted on 9/20/14 at 4:44 pm to runningTiger
quote:
so lets say i get a 100 on a test but get caught cheating after the fact does that mean i really got a 100 on the test because i saw with my own eyes my grade before being caught?
Terrible analogy
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