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The butthurt is Strong: CFA L1 Failure is Super Salty
Posted on 8/24/16 at 11:08 am
Posted on 8/24/16 at 11:08 am
This article is the epitome of what the average piece of "journalism" in the Huffington Post is:
Someone who failed at their career and instead of getting back up and trying to make it decided to become a whining quasi journalist masquerading as a defender of the downtrodden, when they are, in fact, doing nothing but trying to build themselves up.
As I read this article, all I could think is that it sounded like someone who was failed the first level and then took his ball and went home. After a quick google search, I confirmed:
Lewis Krell is a former investment analyst turned tech employee and journalist. When his former employer asked him to take CFA Level I, he obliged – to begin with. And then he dropped out and gave up. Now he’s becoming known for voicing his opinion that the CFA exams are a waste of time.
-eFinancialCareers
The first five points in his 6 point arguments are demonstrably false and the last point (that it causes brilliant people to funnel into finance because the CFA makes it so easy to get on the fast track to a high paying position) is antithetical to his title assertion that it is a scam.
The site won't let me copy and paste, but here are a few highlights of where he is wrong:
-There are prerequisites (having a college degree and additionally 4 years relevant work experience).
-You can't take it however many times you want. You have to pass your next exam within 5 years of your most recent pass. So, unless you want to start the entire series over again multiple times, you have to get serious about taking the exams, especially since they are only offered once a year.
- Attorneys and doctors can take the MCAT and LSAT multiple times, but he's trying to draw a false comparison. The comparable certificates would be the Bar exam and medical boards, which can all be taken more times without repercussions than level 2 and 3 of the CFA.
- He doesn't even justify his claim that the CFA has no incentive to maintain membership quality because even mental gymnastics can't make that seem sensible.
- His assertion that there is no human interaction is absurd. By the time I got to level 3, I knew about 25% of the people taking the exam with me in New Orleans. Maybe that is why he failed.
- The CFA does not give a black and white version of the world. Level 1 does, because it is filled with well established fact, something the author couldn't quite wrap his mind around. By the time you get to L3, you are studying the softer side of finance, like behavioral finance.
- The CFA was an incredibly humbling experience for me and I imagine it is for almost everyone. Although I could see how his remarkably limited experience with Level 1 could lead him to that opinion, level 2, which tests in vignettes, and level 3, which adds a written portion, is impossible to memorize. It's all about learning the overarching themes and effectively playing the numbers game to get above that mystical and undefined rate needed to pass. I'm sure some guy pulled a rainman and annihilated level 3, but everyone I knew, after years and years of preparation for that test day, and a lifetime of intellectual success stories that were easy to come by, walked out of the test feeling somewhere between "I know I failed" and "I might not have failed."
What really makes me mad is that he's one of those idiots that knows enough to sound legit, but in reality, he's further off than people who just know nothing and admit it.
/rant
TL;DR - Old boy couldn't pass the easiest part of the CFA so instead of having the appropriate shame, he decided to demonize the institution.
This didn't get much play on the PT, probably because it's really an MT topic.
LINK
Someone who failed at their career and instead of getting back up and trying to make it decided to become a whining quasi journalist masquerading as a defender of the downtrodden, when they are, in fact, doing nothing but trying to build themselves up.
As I read this article, all I could think is that it sounded like someone who was failed the first level and then took his ball and went home. After a quick google search, I confirmed:
Lewis Krell is a former investment analyst turned tech employee and journalist. When his former employer asked him to take CFA Level I, he obliged – to begin with. And then he dropped out and gave up. Now he’s becoming known for voicing his opinion that the CFA exams are a waste of time.
-eFinancialCareers
The first five points in his 6 point arguments are demonstrably false and the last point (that it causes brilliant people to funnel into finance because the CFA makes it so easy to get on the fast track to a high paying position) is antithetical to his title assertion that it is a scam.
The site won't let me copy and paste, but here are a few highlights of where he is wrong:
-There are prerequisites (having a college degree and additionally 4 years relevant work experience).
-You can't take it however many times you want. You have to pass your next exam within 5 years of your most recent pass. So, unless you want to start the entire series over again multiple times, you have to get serious about taking the exams, especially since they are only offered once a year.
- Attorneys and doctors can take the MCAT and LSAT multiple times, but he's trying to draw a false comparison. The comparable certificates would be the Bar exam and medical boards, which can all be taken more times without repercussions than level 2 and 3 of the CFA.
- He doesn't even justify his claim that the CFA has no incentive to maintain membership quality because even mental gymnastics can't make that seem sensible.
- His assertion that there is no human interaction is absurd. By the time I got to level 3, I knew about 25% of the people taking the exam with me in New Orleans. Maybe that is why he failed.
- The CFA does not give a black and white version of the world. Level 1 does, because it is filled with well established fact, something the author couldn't quite wrap his mind around. By the time you get to L3, you are studying the softer side of finance, like behavioral finance.
- The CFA was an incredibly humbling experience for me and I imagine it is for almost everyone. Although I could see how his remarkably limited experience with Level 1 could lead him to that opinion, level 2, which tests in vignettes, and level 3, which adds a written portion, is impossible to memorize. It's all about learning the overarching themes and effectively playing the numbers game to get above that mystical and undefined rate needed to pass. I'm sure some guy pulled a rainman and annihilated level 3, but everyone I knew, after years and years of preparation for that test day, and a lifetime of intellectual success stories that were easy to come by, walked out of the test feeling somewhere between "I know I failed" and "I might not have failed."
What really makes me mad is that he's one of those idiots that knows enough to sound legit, but in reality, he's further off than people who just know nothing and admit it.
/rant
TL;DR - Old boy couldn't pass the easiest part of the CFA so instead of having the appropriate shame, he decided to demonize the institution.
This didn't get much play on the PT, probably because it's really an MT topic.
LINK
4
Posted on 8/24/16 at 12:08 pm to TheHiddenFlask
I don't know what any of this means.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 12:44 pm to TheHiddenFlask
quote:
The comparable certificates would be the Bar exam and medical boards, which can all be taken more times without repercussions than level 2 and 3 of the CFA
There are serious repercussions to failing the bar, any portion of the three parts of the USMLE exams, or medical specialty boards.
For example Alaska (certain other states have similar rules) limits each Step exam to only two attempts and has a time span they must be passed within. Plus there is the much larger problem of finding a residency or fellowship with failed attempts on your record.
For the bar,(granted I have never taken it) it is my understanding that many people lose their jobs over one or two failed attempts.
The assumption that you can just fail tests multiple times in other fields and have no problems is simply not true.
This post was edited on 8/24/16 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 8/24/16 at 1:03 pm to BearsFan
quote:
The assumption that you can just fail tests multiple times in other fields and have no problems is simply not true.
But when you take other tests, you know what score you want/need. The CFA minimum passing scores are set after the tests are taken. Imagine getting a 75 on a test and thinking you passed... until you see the minimum passing score is 76, for example. I'd probably still compare the CFA to the CPA or CFP, though.
Also, boo that "writer" and the Huffington Post. If they were crap, they wouldn't even be fit for use as fertilizer.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 1:38 pm to Omada
How can it be a scam AND be impossibly hard to complete?
Posted on 8/24/16 at 2:08 pm to BearsFan
quote:
There are serious repercussions to failing the bar, any portion of the three parts of the USMLE exams, or medical specialty boards.
Please tell me about the repercussions that are greater than having to start back at the beginning. I might have dated info, but you can take the LA Bar 6 times and qualify with partial passes. There is none of that nonsense with the CFA.
quote:
For the bar,(granted I have never taken it) it is my understanding that many people lose their jobs over one or two failed attempts.
The assumption that you can just fail tests multiple times in other fields and have no problems is simply not true.
The same thing is often true of financial exams. I'm thinking this guy got canned for failing.
quote:
The assumption that you can just fail tests multiple times in other fields and have no problems is simply not true.
I know a lot of people that failed the bar, passed later, and still have the exact same law license as any other lawyer. If you had read the article (or carefully read my statement), you would have seen where I was going with that, but I see how my wording could be confusing.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 2:10 pm to Omada
quote:
But when you take other tests, you know what score you want/need. The CFA minimum passing scores are set after the tests are taken. Imagine getting a 75 on a test and thinking you passed... until you see the minimum passing score is 76, for example. I'd probably still compare the CFA to the CPA or CFP, though.
They basically guarantee you that a 70% is passing. They just don't tell you exactly what it is to avoid people overfocusing on mock exam scores and to retain their ability to over/under weight questions once they get their results. Being an annual exam, they don't have the luxury of continuous feedback like the CPA exam does.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 2:12 pm to barry
quote:
How can it be a scam AND be impossibly hard to complete?
It's a scam, but it will fast track you to being rich AF.
They have no incentive to maintain quality of charterholders, but it is impossibly hard to complete.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 2:40 pm to TheHiddenFlask
I understand. I've taken Level 1 and sat next to an I banker living in NC. He tried to convince me that the I banking hours weren't that bad, but I knew I couldn't handle it due to my body's sleep demands and occasional migraines. Not sure when or if I'll ever finish the CFA process, but regardless I won't end up in I banking.
All of this is just to say that I'm aware of what the CFA entails. I'm just pointing out that you may or may not pass if your score is in a certain range because the MPS changes from year to year. And it may be more appropriate to compare it to the CPA since you can try again as much as you need to, but you do have a time limit before you have to retake other material as well. Sorry I wasn't clear about all of this earlier, but I'm posting from mobile.
All of this is just to say that I'm aware of what the CFA entails. I'm just pointing out that you may or may not pass if your score is in a certain range because the MPS changes from year to year. And it may be more appropriate to compare it to the CPA since you can try again as much as you need to, but you do have a time limit before you have to retake other material as well. Sorry I wasn't clear about all of this earlier, but I'm posting from mobile.
Posted on 8/25/16 at 10:53 am to TheHiddenFlask
Reminds me a lot of this self-proclaimed Big 4 watchdog that is a total hack. LINK
Posted on 8/25/16 at 10:57 am to TheHiddenFlask
quote:
I might have dated info, but you can take the LA Bar 6 times and qualify with partial passes.
That's dated information. There is no longer "conditioning." If you fail, you fail the whole thing. While the exam is still 9 sections, it is no longer really graded as 9 separate sections any more since you can't condition. 5 times is the max to take it. Pass rates fell dramatically when they went to this system. My wife's year was 53% for the July exam in 2013.
But yes, you are right, once you pass it you have the same license as every one else.
This post was edited on 8/25/16 at 11:00 am
Posted on 8/25/16 at 11:07 am to TheHiddenFlask
The guy clearly doesn't understand how professional exams work. It is demonstrating minimum required technical knowledge, not aptitude.
LSAT/MCAT try to show schools ability to survive the material at Med School. Bar Exam/Boards show you know that minimum/required knowledge for example
LSAT/MCAT try to show schools ability to survive the material at Med School. Bar Exam/Boards show you know that minimum/required knowledge for example
Posted on 8/25/16 at 4:10 pm to TheHiddenFlask
quote:
Please tell me about the repercussions that are greater than having to start back at the beginning. I might have dated info, but you can take the LA Bar 6 times and qualify with partial passes. There is none of that nonsense with the CFA.
"Partial pass", or conditioning, went the way of the Dodo in Louisiana about a half decade ago. It's all or nothing when taking the Bar now. If you fail, you have to wait about six months and take the whole thing over.
Posted on 8/25/16 at 4:32 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
That's dated information. There is no longer "conditioning." If you fail, you fail the whole thing. While the exam is still 9 sections, it is no longer really graded as 9 separate sections any more since you can't condition. 5 times is the max to take it. Pass rates fell dramatically when they went to this system. My wife's year was 53% for the July exam in 2013.
But yes, you are right, once you pass it you have the same license as every one else.
I just realized that I managed to skip over Teddy's post and mine was utterly duplicitous, so in order to add something constructive
: The overall Bar passage rate for July 2013 was about 70%.
LINK /
ETA: I would edit my post to point out that I was an idiot who posted too quickly while I was at the office and referenced the LSU passage rate by accident, but I deserve the ignominy. I don't even remember how to pull anything but the most recent rate for the total statistics. Stain on me
This post was edited on 8/25/16 at 8:00 pm
Posted on 8/25/16 at 7:17 pm to Joshjrn
About 5 times higher than the CFA...
This post was edited on 8/25/16 at 7:22 pm
Posted on 8/25/16 at 7:48 pm to TheHiddenFlask
quote:
About 5 times higher than the CFA...
Not that I care all that much, but are these numbers not correct?
LINK
Am I even looking at the correct exam?
This post was edited on 8/25/16 at 7:50 pm
Posted on 8/25/16 at 8:05 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Not that I care all that much, but are these numbers not correct?
yes you are
3 exams, ~45% pass rate. I think between 10-15% of people pass all 3 exams without failing.
Posted on 8/25/16 at 8:26 pm to barry
That number is a statistically irrelevant figure pushed by the CFAI. The reality is that the completion rates these days are much lower. From 1963-2013, 1,092,397 candidates have sat for the Level 1 exam, with 164,756 candidates ultimately going on to pass the Level 3 exam, representing a weighted average completion rate of 15%. From 2004-2013, the completion rate was 12.5%. The no failure rate can't be even in the double digits.
Posted on 8/25/16 at 8:29 pm to barry
If you fail the step one at my school 3 times you are kicked out of school. Now you have spent 2 years of medical school, $75,000, and have no chance of becoming a doctor.
Posted on 8/25/16 at 8:32 pm to TheHiddenFlask
That's fair. I suppose if we're stacking up exams, we would need to include the MPRE with is the required ethics exam. The overall passage rates for the two exams generally hovers around 55-60% each, at least based on my memory.
But we're likely comparing apples and oranges.
I'm genuinely curious: What do the three levels of these exams look like? How long are they? How often are the exams offered? How many attempts do you get?
But we're likely comparing apples and oranges.
I'm genuinely curious: What do the three levels of these exams look like? How long are they? How often are the exams offered? How many attempts do you get?
This post was edited on 8/25/16 at 8:38 pm
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