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Questions about Section 8 Housing
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:12 am
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:12 am
So I just moved to McKinney, TX a few months ago. One of the factors in such a big move(moving from Florida) was choosing this area as the city is often voted in the top 5 places to live in America, great schools, blah blah blah, all that stuff.
Yesterday, I see all kinds of signs and what not around my neighborhood to petition Section 8 Housing being built. It's a 4 story, 140 unit building, excavation has already begun, which makes me think it's too little/too late on a petition. This place is probably a 5 minute walk from my house, and just a few hundred yards from where my kids are about to start Kindgergarten, so I'd imagine the kids from this new place will be zoned for this school as well.
My questions are:
- I assume when Section 8 housing goes up around nicer neighborhoods, a general increase in crime, decrease in home values, and decrease in school ratings follow?
- What's in it for the city of McKinney of to allow this? Do they have no choice? I can't see any reason why they'd go for this to add section 8 housing in a fairly nice neighborhood. Maybe there's a financial element, I'd imagine that's the logical reason. But even if the city is to receive financial gains from this, is it really worth the negative impact it could bring to the town?
I don't know, on the surface, I'm just pretty ticked off about it, but don't even know if it's warranted as I don't know much about this stuff.
Yesterday, I see all kinds of signs and what not around my neighborhood to petition Section 8 Housing being built. It's a 4 story, 140 unit building, excavation has already begun, which makes me think it's too little/too late on a petition. This place is probably a 5 minute walk from my house, and just a few hundred yards from where my kids are about to start Kindgergarten, so I'd imagine the kids from this new place will be zoned for this school as well.
My questions are:
- I assume when Section 8 housing goes up around nicer neighborhoods, a general increase in crime, decrease in home values, and decrease in school ratings follow?
- What's in it for the city of McKinney of to allow this? Do they have no choice? I can't see any reason why they'd go for this to add section 8 housing in a fairly nice neighborhood. Maybe there's a financial element, I'd imagine that's the logical reason. But even if the city is to receive financial gains from this, is it really worth the negative impact it could bring to the town?
I don't know, on the surface, I'm just pretty ticked off about it, but don't even know if it's warranted as I don't know much about this stuff.
6
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:17 am to shel311
Hmmmmm, Section 8 in McKinney?????? I'm sure you can probably dig a little deeper with google, but I would honestly be shocked for them to allow anything to drive Housing prices down as well as the potential for more culcha related issues.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:18 am to shel311
what party does that area currently vote for? Because they wont be voting for that same party in that area in about 5-10 years.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:20 am to 50_Tiger
quote:No kidding, right? I have no clue why they'd want to do this, that's what my thread is for, to try and get an understanding of the why.
Hmmmmm, Section 8 in McKinney??????
quote:I guess the petition signatures are being taken to some sort of hearing today, and the lady that we signed with said we'd know by July 20th, but given as I said excavation has already started, it certainly sounds like whoever is building has all their ducks in a row, so I don't know how it would be stopped this late in the game.
I'm sure you can probably dig a little deeper with google, but I would honestly be shocked for them to allow anything to drive Housing prices down as well as the potential for more culcha related issues.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:23 am to shel311
To question 1, I don't think a 140 unit building is going to put enough kids in the school to bring its rating down much, if any. Not sure crime will increase, though it could. I lived next to a housing project in college, and never had any crime problems from the residents from there. Every place is different though.
Decrease in home value is the biggest concern, I'd think.
As to question 2, it's probably related to a new initiative with HUD and Obama on spreading out housing projects a little more, instead of isolating them to the poorer areas of town. It was announced a few years ago, and I forget the name of the project, but a Google search may turn something up.
Decrease in home value is the biggest concern, I'd think.
As to question 2, it's probably related to a new initiative with HUD and Obama on spreading out housing projects a little more, instead of isolating them to the poorer areas of town. It was announced a few years ago, and I forget the name of the project, but a Google search may turn something up.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:26 am to shel311
I think I found an article about it:
LINK
The article references the petition leader named Craig Deputy, and he's the guy on the petition form I signed, so I assume that's it.
I live right on the Frisco/McKinney border(live in McKinney but zoned for Frisco ISD schools) so even though this place going up can't be more than a quarter of a mile(half mile tops) from my house, it appears it's zoned for Frisco and not McKinney if this article is the area referenced.
LINK
The article references the petition leader named Craig Deputy, and he's the guy on the petition form I signed, so I assume that's it.
I live right on the Frisco/McKinney border(live in McKinney but zoned for Frisco ISD schools) so even though this place going up can't be more than a quarter of a mile(half mile tops) from my house, it appears it's zoned for Frisco and not McKinney if this article is the area referenced.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:28 am to The Spleen
quote:if the article I linked is the same as I referenced in my OP, it's even less as well, under 100.
To question 1, I don't think a 140 unit building is going to put enough kids in the school to bring its rating down much, if any. Not sure crime will increase, though it could. I lived next to a housing project in college, and never had any crime problems from the residents from there. Every place is different though.
quote:So it's more of a deal where the city doesn't have much of a choice, possibly.
As to question 2, it's probably related to a new initiative with HUD and Obama on spreading out housing projects a little more, instead of isolating them to the poorer areas of town. It was announced a few years ago, and I forget the name of the project, but a Google search may turn something up.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:40 am to The Spleen
Thanks, that's a good read to help explain.
From your article:
I assumed there had to be some financial incentive. I don't know, I guess it's a rather large incentive, as I'd still imagine the potential negative impact it could have if I understand it correctly to the surrounding neighborhoods could have its own negative impact financially as well.
From your article:
quote:
The regulations would use grant money as an incentive for communities to build affordable housing in more affluent areas
I assumed there had to be some financial incentive. I don't know, I guess it's a rather large incentive, as I'd still imagine the potential negative impact it could have if I understand it correctly to the surrounding neighborhoods could have its own negative impact financially as well.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:41 am to shel311
I was just in McKinney for the first time about a week and a half ago. Visiting some friends that moved there. Nice town. I was really digging what they have done with their downtown area. Saw multiple chamber of commerce handouts that said they were the "Number 1 place to live in America".
It wasn't clear if the article you later posted was the same project as the one in your OP.
From your OP, sounds like they are building a mixed-income complex. Essentially, rent is charged on a sliding scale based on income. Poorer people pay less, less poor people pay more.
The investors get tax credits for building these types of projects.
The city/county gets property taxes.
We have a few of these in Chalmette. A lot of people were very, very, very upset about it and tried to block it. In the end, the complexes went through. In the several years they have been open, there has not been a hint of trouble. The owners need some full-rent tenants to make the financials work, so they are not going to just let it go to hell.
They have done a few of these in Katy as well, and it seems to be going ok.
It wasn't clear if the article you later posted was the same project as the one in your OP.
From your OP, sounds like they are building a mixed-income complex. Essentially, rent is charged on a sliding scale based on income. Poorer people pay less, less poor people pay more.
The investors get tax credits for building these types of projects.
The city/county gets property taxes.
We have a few of these in Chalmette. A lot of people were very, very, very upset about it and tried to block it. In the end, the complexes went through. In the several years they have been open, there has not been a hint of trouble. The owners need some full-rent tenants to make the financials work, so they are not going to just let it go to hell.
They have done a few of these in Katy as well, and it seems to be going ok.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:44 am to shel311
Quite frankly, Fed money or not, im quite shocked policy makers in both those cities are even toying with this idea unless they have a plan to where applicants are "vetted."
Take a quick trip up the DNT or US75 and you can see billions of dollars being pumped into those corridors. Last thing any investor wants is something that could possibly indirectly drive their investment down in value.
Take a quick trip up the DNT or US75 and you can see billions of dollars being pumped into those corridors. Last thing any investor wants is something that could possibly indirectly drive their investment down in value.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:45 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:I'm confident it is, but not 100%.
It wasn't clear if the article you later posted was the same project as the one in your OP
It's also the same Anderson Development Project or whatever it's called from the article as on the petition I signed, so I think it is.
quote:That's good to hear, maybe I am overreacting a bit.
We have a few of these in Chalmette. A lot of people were very, very, very upset about it and tried to block it. In the end, the complexes went through. In the several years they have been open, there has not been a hint of trouble. The owners need some full-rent tenants to make the financials work, so they are not going to just let it go to hell.
quote:Yea, that's true. I just wonder if I'm overstating it or overthinking, but if surrounding home values go down, that's a lot to be lost in property taxes as well.
The city/county gets property taxes.
quote:I think it's Money Magazine that ranked them #1 and has had them in the top 5 for a few years in a row, or something along those lines.
Saw multiple chamber of commerce handouts that said they were the "Number 1 place to live in America".
This post was edited on 7/11/16 at 10:47 am
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:47 am to 50_Tiger
quote:Exactly. I mean, I can't even count the amount of new neighborhoods and hundreds of houses currently being built just within a 5-10 drive from my house, it's pretty crazy.
Quite frankly, Fed money or not, im quite shocked policy makers in both those cities are even toying with this idea unless they have a plan to where applicants are "vetted." Take a quick trip up the DNT or US75 and you can see billions of dollars being pumped into those corridors. Last thing any investor wants is something that could possibly indirectly drive their investment down in value.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 10:57 am to The Spleen
140 section 8 units? That's like 400 kids right there 
Posted on 7/11/16 at 11:05 am to shel311
quote:
but if surrounding home values go down, that's a lot to be lost in property taxes as well.
It takes an act of god and an act of congress to get the appraisal districts in texas to LOWER property values for taxation. =)
Posted on 7/11/16 at 11:25 am to shel311
"Section 8" is an obsolete name...it's called the Housing Choice Voucher (HVC) program. Any landlord anywhere can decide to participate in this program...landlord simply has to agree to accept someone who has a voucher & then the property has to pass HUD's (rather rigorous) inspection. At least in my state, there is no way for a municipality to disallow a landlord to participate in this federal program. Of course, some places have attempted to do so by passing ordinances eliminating rental property altogether, but that creates a whole new set of issues.
Before you full on freak out, ask some simple questions: is the development in question a mixed-income development? Some developers happily accept federal subsidies for construction under the agreement that X% of the units are rented to subsidized (voucher-holding) tenants, while the rest of the units are rented at market rate. Generally speaking, I've seen lots of positives at mixed-income developments...some have better on-site services thanks to the developers' subsidies--and the developers put additional amenities into the complexes to "sell" the idea of mixed-income developments to market-rate payers. And the management is usually more present/hands-on to head off potential problems than in your average apt complex.
No, HCV (Sec 8) doesn't necessarily mean poverty and violence and crime. It does mean you'll have people of lesser means living nearby.
Before you full on freak out, ask some simple questions: is the development in question a mixed-income development? Some developers happily accept federal subsidies for construction under the agreement that X% of the units are rented to subsidized (voucher-holding) tenants, while the rest of the units are rented at market rate. Generally speaking, I've seen lots of positives at mixed-income developments...some have better on-site services thanks to the developers' subsidies--and the developers put additional amenities into the complexes to "sell" the idea of mixed-income developments to market-rate payers. And the management is usually more present/hands-on to head off potential problems than in your average apt complex.
No, HCV (Sec 8) doesn't necessarily mean poverty and violence and crime. It does mean you'll have people of lesser means living nearby.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 11:32 am to hungryone
I don't really have a clue, but I'd guess the developer is just using Section 8 to get Federal funding to build and that the complex will have the bare minimum of section 8 tenants as possible. I mean nobody trying to make money builds a complex just for section 8, that is a government housing project. Section 8 does not pay top dollar they just pay fair market value, so you aren't going to build something brand new for fair market value tenants, it just doesn't make sense unless you have a lot of government subsidies.
So let's say its 15% or something section 8 and the rest are normal tenants. No city is going to want a complex that is more than 30% or so section 8, at that point the property values go down no matter how well you try and control them. You are going to have a lot of bad tenants if you have a lot of section 8's, you simply can't weed that many out.
So let's say its 15% or something section 8 and the rest are normal tenants. No city is going to want a complex that is more than 30% or so section 8, at that point the property values go down no matter how well you try and control them. You are going to have a lot of bad tenants if you have a lot of section 8's, you simply can't weed that many out.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 12:14 pm to hungryone
quote:
And the management is usually more present/hands-on to head off potential problems than in your average apt complex.
Not to mention, your average Sec 8 single prop landlord is rather hands-off, which leads to the property becoming a slum.
Yeah, the tenants can be problems, but the lack of active landlording is just a big a problem.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 12:20 pm to hungryone
quote:Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it.
"Section 8" is an obsolete name...it's called the Housing Choice Voucher (HVC) program. Any landlord anywhere can decide to participate in this program...landlord simply has to agree to accept someone who has a voucher & then the property has to pass HUD's (rather rigorous) inspection. At least in my state, there is no way for a municipality to disallow a landlord to participate in this federal program. Of course, some places have attempted to do so by passing ordinances eliminating rental property altogether, but that creates a whole new set of issues. Before you full on freak out, ask some simple questions: is the development in question a mixed-income development? Some developers happily accept federal subsidies for construction under the agreement that X% of the units are rented to subsidized (voucher-holding) tenants, while the rest of the units are rented at market rate. Generally speaking, I've seen lots of positives at mixed-income developments...some have better on-site services thanks to the developers' subsidies--and the developers put additional amenities into the complexes to "sell" the idea of mixed-income developments to market-rate payers. And the management is usually more present/hands-on to head off potential problems than in your average apt complex. No, HCV (Sec 8) doesn't necessarily mean poverty and violence and crime. It does mean you'll have people of lesser means living nearby.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 1:17 pm to shel311
quote:
Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it.
You're welcome. LSUHouston's point about deficient landlords is a key element of why so many have a negative impression about subsidized tenants. If the landlord doesn't maintain the exterior of the property (paint, roof, etc), it's not the tenant's fault. Too damn many landlords take the gov'ts money and then allow their property to decay into ugliness & disrepair...they'd rather keep taking the gov't check than evict a terrible tenant.
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