Page 1
Page 1
Started By
Message

Bonds. Explanation needed.

Posted on 5/5/15 at 7:35 am
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18946 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 7:35 am
After perusing my Acorns statement I noticed that the corporate bond that I own distributes monthly.
So I looked up a few bond indexes and apparently most, if not all, pay out monthly.
Is this what is called a bond coupon?

Since I like passive income it made me want to buy some investment grade long term bonds, but then I read how bonds will go down in value if interest rates increase...This made me think that buying Vanguard's long term bond index VLBTX is a bad idea.

But short term bonds provide low returns, so how do you win at bonds? Do people buy them like they'd buy T or GE and reap the benefits of steady dividends (coupons?...in this case)?

Any explanation is appreciated, and feel free to tell me more.
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 7:37 am
Posted by Fat Bastard
coach, investor, gambler
Member since Mar 2009
72734 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:06 am to
You have a thread stickied so you might want to update it since you are the one who started it. I'm about to add some RE links as well.
Posted by southernelite
Dallas
Member since Sep 2009
53177 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:07 am to
Yes, that's the bond coupon of the bond.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18946 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:21 am to
I've been thinking about it. I was unemployed when I made that thread...I'm now very employed
Posted by kennypowers816
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2010
2446 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:33 am to
Aren't you in your mid 20's?

As I've mentioned before when you were really caught up on blue chips, most would suggest at your age that you should be looking at equity funds. Forget about the income for now and look for some serious growth.
Posted by SouthOfSouth
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2008
43456 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:36 am to
Right now is not a very good time to be in bond markets. There's very little upside with interest rates already so low and the downside is pretty high. Love the concept, but it practice they are not a very great investment tool at this point, especially for someone in their 20's. Possibly some riskier municipal's that have tax incentives could be worth your time.
Posted by euphemus
Member since Mar 2014
536 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:42 am to
In general there are two types of bonds: Zero-Coupon Bonds and Coupon Bonds.


Bond Terminology:

Face Value = Notional amount used to calculate interest payments

Coupon Rate = Determines the amount of each coupon payment, expressed as an APR with the appropriate compounding rate

Coupon Payment = (Coupon Rate*Face Value) / Number of Coupon Payments per Year

Yield to Maturity (YTM) = Internal Rate of Return (IRR) of the Coupon Bond


Zero-Coupon Bond:

- Pay face value at maturity
- No coupon interest payments

If a one year zero-coupon bond with face value of $100 has a price of $96.62, then its YTM can be calculated as follows:

Price = Face Value/(1+YTM)^n
96.62 = 100/(1+YTM)^1
This gives a YTM of 3.5%


Coupon Bonds:

- Pay face value at maturity
- Pay regular coupon interest payments

Let's say you buy a 5-year US treasury bond of $1000 with coupon rate of 5% and semi-annual coupons, then the coupon payments you will receive every six months can be calculated as follows:

Coupon Payment = (Coupon Rate*Face Value) / Number of Coupon Payments per Year = (5%*1000)/2 = $25

The price and YTM formula for a coupon bond is pretty complicated and you will need Excel to solve it. If you want me to show you can example of that, I'd be happy to.
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 8:55 am
Posted by southernelite
Dallas
Member since Sep 2009
53177 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:51 am to
quote:

The price and YTM formula for a coupon bond is pretty complicated and you will need Excel to solve it.


Or a BA II Plus/HP 12C
Posted by southernelite
Dallas
Member since Sep 2009
53177 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:51 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 8:55 am
Posted by southernelite
Dallas
Member since Sep 2009
53177 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:51 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 8:57 am
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18946 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:00 am to
quote:

As I've mentioned before when you were really caught up on blue chips, most would suggest at your age that you should be looking at equity funds. Forget about the income for now and look for some serious growth.
Yes, 26.
You're right. I'm now pro index funds or high yield ETFs having gotten out of all my blue chips.
I am just curious about opening up a small bond position at some point.
Posted by SouthOfSouth
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2008
43456 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:05 am to
quote:

You're right. I'm now pro index funds or high yield ETFs having gotten out of all my blue chips.
I am just curious about opening up a small bond position at some point.


Just remember the price of the bond is only relevant if you plan on trading it. If you expect your children to go to college in 20 years and get a 20 year bond, you will get the entire amount in 20 years. If interest rates increase, they will sell for less if you need to get your money out in 10 years, but you will be given the actual amount you expected if you hold till maturity. It's just relatively less desirable if interest rates in the market are higher.

ex: why would I buy a bond with a 4% interest rate when the going rate is 6%?

This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 9:06 am
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18946 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:17 am to
quote:

ex: why would I buy a bond with a 4% interest rate when the going rate is 6%?

So buying a long term bond is always a complete guess?
Posted by SouthOfSouth
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2008
43456 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:28 am to
quote:

So buying a long term bond is always a complete guess?


Buying bonds can be a great tool if you want a way to make a smaller, but less risky return for a given time period.

If you buy a $1,000, 10 year bond at a 5% interest rate, you will get $50 per year for 10 years, and $1,000 in 10 years. That isn't a guess.

The guess is if you decide to sell it in 5 years.

If market interest rates moved from 5% to 6%, you would sell that $1,000 bond for less than $1,000. If the market interest rate moved to 4%, you would sell that bond for more than 1k at year 5.

That is where the guess is, but there is no guess at all if you plan to hold till maturity. Unless the company defaults, you will get exactly what was stated (with the one exception if there is a clause allowing for early payment, think refinancing mortgages but for the company).
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 9:30 am
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4590 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:32 am to
You're not buying a bond for capital appreciation, you're buying it for income..

Just as if you bought a dairy cow for milk, you don't necessarily care what the price of beef is doing because you're goal is the milk production from that cow.
Posted by kennypowers816
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2010
2446 posts
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:40 am to
quote:

Just as if you bought a dairy cow for milk, you don't necessarily care what the price of beef is doing because you're goal is the milk production from that cow.


Good analogy.



And to the OP, as South said...

quote:

Unless the company defaults, you will get exactly what was stated


This is the only variable if you are definitely holding the bond to maturity and hence the ratings.
first pageprev pagePage 1 of 1Next pagelast page
refresh

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram