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Why do people ignore circumstances when evaluating a coaches success or failure?
Posted on 11/26/14 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 11/26/14 at 1:04 pm
For example, let's look at DiNardo's tenure at LSU and how things were each season.
Upon arrival, DiNardo took over an LSU team that hadn't had a winning season in 6 years. Immediately turned things around in both recruiting and on the field with a 7-4-1 season.
He continued into the next season with a 10-2 record and 9-3 record. In 1998, LSU was ranked #6, I believe to start the season and trending upward.
Then, prior to that season, LSU refused to ante-up and pay Carl Reese or any other top notch assistant and he leaves to Texas only to turn around their horrid defense into a perennial top 25 defense the next 5 seasons. For those that remember, LSU refused to offer higher salaries for DiNardo's assistants, and thus we lost a great DC and were forced to replace him with someone willing to come in on the cheap. Enter Lou Tepper, a friend of DiNardo's willing to take the crap salary that Dean offered.
LSU's defense was horrid and while the offense was still moving the ball and scoring effectively, it could not overcome the defensive loss left by Reese's departure. LSU's team flailed and eventually finished the season 4-7 while giving up 25+ ppg.
The following year Morris Watt left as offensive coordinator for similar reasons, ironically to Saban's MSU team that had its best season under him finishing 9-2. LSU replaced him on the cheap with Bob Mconnell taking LSU from 30+ppg to ~20 ppg in 1999 even including their massive breakout for 35 points in the last game of the season.
The point here is that people will look back at DiNardo and remember Tepper and that horrid defense and LSU sucking to end his tenure, but many like to freak out about LSU hiring a new coach. LSU had talent in those years as evidenced by Saban's quick turnarounds in 2000 and 2001. It simply was that LSU at the time wasn't willing to pay even mediocre dollar for assistants. They now pay the highest staff salary in college football, making any coach that comes here have a significantly better chance at success.
So when you worry about hiring a new coach, don't forget what LSU, Bama, etc have done for their respective coaches by opening the checkbooks and stop acting like other schools bad hires = LSU's doom and gloom if and when Les leaves.
Upon arrival, DiNardo took over an LSU team that hadn't had a winning season in 6 years. Immediately turned things around in both recruiting and on the field with a 7-4-1 season.
He continued into the next season with a 10-2 record and 9-3 record. In 1998, LSU was ranked #6, I believe to start the season and trending upward.
Then, prior to that season, LSU refused to ante-up and pay Carl Reese or any other top notch assistant and he leaves to Texas only to turn around their horrid defense into a perennial top 25 defense the next 5 seasons. For those that remember, LSU refused to offer higher salaries for DiNardo's assistants, and thus we lost a great DC and were forced to replace him with someone willing to come in on the cheap. Enter Lou Tepper, a friend of DiNardo's willing to take the crap salary that Dean offered.
LSU's defense was horrid and while the offense was still moving the ball and scoring effectively, it could not overcome the defensive loss left by Reese's departure. LSU's team flailed and eventually finished the season 4-7 while giving up 25+ ppg.
The following year Morris Watt left as offensive coordinator for similar reasons, ironically to Saban's MSU team that had its best season under him finishing 9-2. LSU replaced him on the cheap with Bob Mconnell taking LSU from 30+ppg to ~20 ppg in 1999 even including their massive breakout for 35 points in the last game of the season.
The point here is that people will look back at DiNardo and remember Tepper and that horrid defense and LSU sucking to end his tenure, but many like to freak out about LSU hiring a new coach. LSU had talent in those years as evidenced by Saban's quick turnarounds in 2000 and 2001. It simply was that LSU at the time wasn't willing to pay even mediocre dollar for assistants. They now pay the highest staff salary in college football, making any coach that comes here have a significantly better chance at success.
So when you worry about hiring a new coach, don't forget what LSU, Bama, etc have done for their respective coaches by opening the checkbooks and stop acting like other schools bad hires = LSU's doom and gloom if and when Les leaves.
This post was edited on 11/26/14 at 1:10 pm
7
Posted on 11/26/14 at 1:06 pm to Geauxgurt
great post.
Posted on 11/26/14 at 1:09 pm to Geauxgurt
Excellent point, I often wondered would we ever had had Saban had Dinardo been giving the money to make great coordinator hires. 
Posted on 11/26/14 at 1:13 pm to Geauxgurt
I think part of the issue is that there's been a vocal contingent of fans that never wanted Les and have screaming for him to be gone since that Monday night against UT. And it's clouded the issue and driven his most loyal supporters to dig their heels in and decry any calls for Les to be replaced. But what needs to be looked it is WHY it might be time for Les to leave.
When the impetus to be fired in 2010/11/12 was simply because he couldn't "beat Saban" then it was easy to reply "Well WHO can?". Expecting a coach to come in and derail one of the greatest runs in CFB history is a tall order, and quite frankly there is a lot greater chance of failure than success.
However, I no longer believe that is where we are at. It's becoming clear that for whatever the reason, the level of play and program building has dropped off in the last 2 years, and it's hard to see elite level status in the near future. This isn't about just beating Nick to win a NC. This is about not being the 5th or 6th best team in your own division. That's a totally different target for a potential new coach, and one that could be hit by a number of qualified candidates
When the impetus to be fired in 2010/11/12 was simply because he couldn't "beat Saban" then it was easy to reply "Well WHO can?". Expecting a coach to come in and derail one of the greatest runs in CFB history is a tall order, and quite frankly there is a lot greater chance of failure than success.
However, I no longer believe that is where we are at. It's becoming clear that for whatever the reason, the level of play and program building has dropped off in the last 2 years, and it's hard to see elite level status in the near future. This isn't about just beating Nick to win a NC. This is about not being the 5th or 6th best team in your own division. That's a totally different target for a potential new coach, and one that could be hit by a number of qualified candidates
Posted on 11/26/14 at 1:19 pm to Geauxgurt
The only circumstance of significance for the 2014 Tigers is the very poor QB play which makes an otherwise good team one-dimensional and well less than they could otherwise be. The consistent element in the equation over Miles term at LSU has been Offensive line and QB recruitment and play. Miles is the circumstance responsible for exactly where we are. He has chosen poor recruits and/or chose poor players to develop and hang his "hat" on, and this year the biggest problem BY FAR is the play of the QB. All other matters for this team this year are completely irrelevant. He keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over again, and this year is a prime example of his biggest weakness playing out right in front of us in a highly predictable manner.
This post was edited on 11/26/14 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 11/26/14 at 1:52 pm to Football_Freak
quote:
He has chosen poor recruits and/or chose poor players to develop and hang his "hat" on, and this year the biggest problem BY FAR is the play of the QB. All other matters for this team this year are completely irrelevant. He keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over again, and this year is a prime example of his biggest weakness playing out right in front of us in a highly predictable manner.
I disagree with this to a point. I don't think we've missed on recruiting as much as some would like to believe, but there have been misses.
Kiel and Lee bolting didn't help.
JJ was a great prospect, but how he was handled by both Crowton and Miles was absurd. It scarred the kid and while I am no JJ fan, people forget he was a decent QB his true Sophomore year, and then the wheels fell off when he had no accountability for his quality of play.
Jarrett Lee was a Jimbo recruit, and stayed on. I laugh when I read a quote in a recent article from Crowton on how they felt Lee was like a Flynn type guy that just happened to turn out less mobile. That shows you how off their view is on QBs.
LSU's issues at QB are squarely on Miles and company. They refuse to adapt the offense over a gradient to fit their players. By that I mean they don't adjust the play calling or scheme to fit a given QBs weaknesses and strengths, whether it be inexperience, lack of arm strength, etc.
They simply go from one extreme to another. It's the same thing in game as well. When Mett was throwing up the INTs against Ole Miss last year, LSU didn't change anything and it kept happening, eventually putting LSU into to big of a whole to recover.
This is why 1/9/2012 was a true example of how Les Miles handles these situations. Hell, even Urban Meyer changed his offense to fit Leak in 2006 and it helped him win an NC. Same thing Mack had to do at UT in 2004 with Vince Young, and from that point turned their entire offense around, but Les refuses to do that.
Posted on 11/26/14 at 2:21 pm to Geauxgurt
Because good coaches overcome "circumstances"
There will always be the excuse of "circumstances" for anyone who just isnt good enough
eta: Didnt read the OP, only responded to thread title, no clue what this thread is about.
tl;dr
There will always be the excuse of "circumstances" for anyone who just isnt good enough
eta: Didnt read the OP, only responded to thread title, no clue what this thread is about.
tl;dr
This post was edited on 11/26/14 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 11/26/14 at 2:37 pm to DollaChoppa
quote:
eta: Didnt read the OP, only responded to thread title, no clue what this thread is about.
Clearly not seeing as a coach not being given the money to hire quality coordinators and assistants is something to easily "overcome" as you say.
Posted on 11/26/14 at 4:27 pm to Geauxgurt
It seems that the Miles proponents keep giving up excuses or circumstances as to "why there was failure" and it's all ok because of a won loss record (that's beginning to look less impressive). Well, that's what a season is about...overcoming obstacles. That's what a coach is paid to do - whether it be the team being too young, or injuries, tough schedule or no QB, etc. A pattern of failure on offense has developed. How many years of sucking at the QB position do you have to see to know that there's a problem. LSU shouldn't be settling or projecting as a 4th or 5th in the division every year. The rest of the conference has stepped up. You want to see what a down year for a championship team is, look at BAMA. They have holes at O-Line and QB and on defense and they are still going to be playing for the title with the worst team they've fielded in years. Some staffs know how to overcome obstacles. This staff refuses to even try it seems.
This post was edited on 11/26/14 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 11/26/14 at 5:21 pm to TigerB8
quote:
It seems that the Miles proponents keep giving up excuses or circumstances as to "why there was failure" and it's all ok because of a won loss record (that's beginning to look less impressive). Well, that's what a season is about...overcoming obstacles. That's what a coach is paid to do - whether it be the team being too young, or injuries, tough schedule or no QB, etc. A pattern of failure on offense has developed. How many years of sucking at the QB position do you have to see to know that there's a problem. LSU shouldn't be settling or projecting as a 4th or 5th in the division every year. The rest of the conference has stepped up. You want to see what a down year for a championship team is, look at BAMA. They have holes at O-Line and QB and on defense and they are still going to be playing for the title with the worst team they've fielded in years. Some staffs know how to overcome obstacles. This staff refuses to even try it seems.
Amen brother, amen !
Posted on 11/26/14 at 5:55 pm to TangipahoaTiger
Any AD with a pure football mentality would fire Les after the season. The hiccups have been there all along. I love the guy as a human being, but we need a better head coach. It would kind of be sad to watch him get the boot, but very necessary if LSU wants to get to an elite status consistently. They say he is a great recruiter, and to some extent I will have to agree with that. BUT LSU recruits itself and the argument can be made that we would have gotten more of our own instate recruits that were overflowing with offensive talent if we had a better offense on a more consistent basis. Let's face it. When we look bad we look really bad. In order for LSU to be elite it must find a new coach and that is my honest opinion as a true LSU fan for the last 15 years
Posted on 11/26/14 at 6:43 pm to Geauxgurt
While there is no need to freak out, but anyone not concerned over replacing one of the most successful coaches in the game today has not been following the college football landscape very well.
Ask schools with lots of money such USC, Michigan, Tennessee, Nebraska, Florida, and ND how easy it is to replace highly successful football coaches.
We replaced Nick so we can replace Milies probably, but anyone eager to do so or think it comes without risk is simply naive in the ways of SEC/BCS football.
Ask schools with lots of money such USC, Michigan, Tennessee, Nebraska, Florida, and ND how easy it is to replace highly successful football coaches.
We replaced Nick so we can replace Milies probably, but anyone eager to do so or think it comes without risk is simply naive in the ways of SEC/BCS football.
Posted on 11/26/14 at 6:45 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
By that I mean they don't adjust the play calling or scheme to fit a given QBs weaknesses and strengths, whether it be inexperience, lack of arm strength, etc.
Every once in a while, LSU would run the f'n read option look when Lee was in the game. When it would happen, I would just shake my head. I'm sure the defensive ends were absolutely confused about who would end up with the ball.
Posted on 11/26/14 at 6:49 pm to LSU=DBU
You are on the right track, LSU = DBU.
And maybe some of us thought Alleva had a good football mentality. After all, I believe he was a college football player.
But now it appears he is more into turning a profit for the school and keeping the Board basically happy, not ruffling many feathers. He is too patient with head coaches.
And maybe some of us thought Alleva had a good football mentality. After all, I believe he was a college football player.
But now it appears he is more into turning a profit for the school and keeping the Board basically happy, not ruffling many feathers. He is too patient with head coaches.
Posted on 11/26/14 at 7:21 pm to Geauxgurt
Men make there own circumstances
Posted on 11/26/14 at 7:40 pm to TigerB8
Right F"ing on! Head in the sand.
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