- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
The "Dark Ages" of LSU Football
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:27 am
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:27 am
In another thread, poster alumni95 recalled being at LSU as a student duing the "Dark Ages".
Why was there ever a period of time like that? I know that it can be cyclical, but..... LSU was in the dumps. Why was this allowed? Like Mack Brown, was Cholly Mac just too stubborn to quit, or was the administration too complacent to act? Was there a dearth of in-state talent? I remember reading quotes from high school head coaches that they were telling their star recruits to go elsewhere.
How was it a revolving door for coaches for so long and who was making these terrible decisions?
Finally, since none of the coaches before him got it done, how did Nick Saban manage to come in, put a fence around the state and upgrade the facilities, turning the program around?
There are a lot of Tigers fans who have every expectation of winning, who didn't grow up during the "Dark Ages". Tell us what happened? Why did LSU suck?
*edit - not saying Cholly was part of the dark ages, but that the situation with Texas is similar. Long time coach and some cracks in the armor, maybe some rust or mildew showing. Was he there too long and complacency set in? I don't know. Once he left, the wheels may not have come off, but the bearings needed replacing, and it seems like LSU Football was always an up and down, iffy proposition for recruits.
Why was there ever a period of time like that? I know that it can be cyclical, but..... LSU was in the dumps. Why was this allowed? Like Mack Brown, was Cholly Mac just too stubborn to quit, or was the administration too complacent to act? Was there a dearth of in-state talent? I remember reading quotes from high school head coaches that they were telling their star recruits to go elsewhere.
How was it a revolving door for coaches for so long and who was making these terrible decisions?
Finally, since none of the coaches before him got it done, how did Nick Saban manage to come in, put a fence around the state and upgrade the facilities, turning the program around?
There are a lot of Tigers fans who have every expectation of winning, who didn't grow up during the "Dark Ages". Tell us what happened? Why did LSU suck?
*edit - not saying Cholly was part of the dark ages, but that the situation with Texas is similar. Long time coach and some cracks in the armor, maybe some rust or mildew showing. Was he there too long and complacency set in? I don't know. Once he left, the wheels may not have come off, but the bearings needed replacing, and it seems like LSU Football was always an up and down, iffy proposition for recruits.
This post was edited on 1/5/14 at 10:16 am
20
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:30 am to HubbaBubba
the dark ages had nothing to do with cholly mac. early 90s with hallman were the dark ages
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:31 am to HubbaBubba
the dark ages had nothing to do with cholly mac. early 90s with hallman were the dark ages
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:32 am to ksayetiger
When Cholly left, what was the state of the team and facilities?
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:34 am to HubbaBubba
quote:
Cholly Mac
those weren't the "dark ages"
89-95 were.
Archer was too young. From there, a mistake was made on Curley but at the same time LSU was fricking cheap. Didn't invest in any infrastructure, coaches, anything. Run like a mom and pop business. Didn't invest in the product and it showed. Even with Gerry D, LSU went cheap. Too much political BS was involved as well.
Saban forced LSU to re-invest in the program, but in reality it started with Gerry D. Ppl saw the program could compete but Emmertt was as much a force as Saban money wise.
edit:
quote:
When Cholly left, what was the state of the team and facilities?
The team was competitive. Some issues, not a national power but it was a different world back then. LSU went 7-4 the yr after Cholly Mac left and was in the Orange Bowl for the 82 season. Facilities weren't seen as being important like they are currently.
This post was edited on 1/5/14 at 9:38 am
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:35 am to HubbaBubba
I blame Brett Favre.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:36 am to HubbaBubba
When mac left, we were down a little but ok
Then rein died
Lsu did very well with stovall and arnsbsrger
Good ole boy network putting so much faith in mike archer was the beginning of the dark days
Then rein died
Lsu did very well with stovall and arnsbsrger
Good ole boy network putting so much faith in mike archer was the beginning of the dark days
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:37 am to HubbaBubba
quote:
Why did LSU suck?
poor coaching decisions by the AD.
we went the cheap route and hired cheap coaches none worse than curly hallman. AND, most people do not remember this but LSU honored contracts in those days (very much like Notre Dame honored theirs with gerry faust). so we didn't fire guys until their contract expired which meant that some recruits were turned off by a HC that had a short contract.
cholly mac's career ended due to recruiting contrictions; first by not recruiting black players and second by not recruiting new orleans or much of north louisiana. he was the I10 recruiter from houston to pensacola.
arnsbarger was an a-hole but was a good football coach and we hired archer to replace him which started our downfall and it did not begin to turn until gerry dinardo came aboard.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:39 am to HubbaBubba
In a word, Joe Dean. The administration above him had a lot to do with it, too, but Joe Dean was really instrumental in maintaining the nightmare. His "cost cutting" skills equated to basically hiring the cheapest coach he could find. He got lucky with DiNardo in that the man could actually coach a litte and recruit. But once that came crashing down the whole administration had to have a personality change (i.e., Mark Emmert) and make the commitment to achieving elite status. Which meant hiring Nick Saban and making all the improvement commitments he required to come here and be successful.
And, as already mentioned, the "Dark Ages" of LSU had nothing to do with Cholly Mac's tenure.
There were some struggles after he retired that included some revolving door situations, but also some genuine unforeseeable tragedy. Bo Rein, the coach hired to replace Mac, was killed in a plane crash while recruiting. So we had to hire Jerry Stovall on short notice as a replacement. He had mixed results (National Coach of the Year and an Orange Bowl in '82, I believe), but wasn't the answer long term. Then Bill Arnsparger had success but retired from coaching to become Florida's AD. Then the Archer situation started the backslide into the Dark Ages.
And, as already mentioned, the "Dark Ages" of LSU had nothing to do with Cholly Mac's tenure.
There were some struggles after he retired that included some revolving door situations, but also some genuine unforeseeable tragedy. Bo Rein, the coach hired to replace Mac, was killed in a plane crash while recruiting. So we had to hire Jerry Stovall on short notice as a replacement. He had mixed results (National Coach of the Year and an Orange Bowl in '82, I believe), but wasn't the answer long term. Then Bill Arnsparger had success but retired from coaching to become Florida's AD. Then the Archer situation started the backslide into the Dark Ages.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:39 am to LSU GrandDad
In my opinion $
We were cheap and it showed
We were cheap and it showed
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:40 am to HubbaBubba
Interesting question. When you're on your way to the bottom after being on top, how do you know your in the midst of a decline? At what point do you acknowledge the slide and take corrective action?
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:40 am to HubbaBubba
quote:
Why was this allowed? Like Mack Brown, was Cholly Mac just too stubborn to quit, or was the administration too complacent to act?
Help Mac Pac (obnoxious fan chant) lead LSU to the Dark Ages. Mac was the designer and coordinator of the Chinese Bandits and won a LOT of Football Games as head coach but because he couldn't beat Bear Bryant regularly (no one could) LSU fans hated him as much as they envied Bryant (sound familiar?) - he was pushed aside, Bo Reign died and for 20 years Tiger Nation cried.
We are 14 years into the Golden Age of LSU football and have the most accomplished coach (in game, recruiting and in life) in our illustrious history, maybe we should embrace it, lest we screw ourselves AGAIN!!
Thanks in advance.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:44 am to danfraz
quote:
89-95 were
I think the whole era never happens if Brodhead had remained AD. He would have never hired Archer to begin with. I mean he obviously wasn't perfect as it all panned out, but from a business standpoint, he had visions for the football program that were way ahead of his time.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:44 am to HubbaBubba
Can't blame the "Dark Ages" on Cholly, LSU brought that on itself. After Rein was lost, there was a rush to hire a new coach & LSU felt an "LSU man" would be the best route to hold things together after the trajedy, that didn't work out well. From that point on, until the Dinardo hire, the AD made some bad coaching decisions & basically wasn't putting much into the program. Couple that with the "lack of character" some of those coaches & the players they recruited & allowed to run wild, the AD lost control. It wasn't until the AD realized that to turn this thing around, LSU would have to clean house, hire a man of higher moral, & seemingly intellectual, standards as a coach, & start playing catch up in the funding of facilities & program needs. Once the LSU AD "saw the light", things started to turn around & here we are today.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:45 am to ksayetiger
Say what you want about Saban, what it showed the college football world was that LSU was coming out of the Good Ole Boy era. During Saban's era, everything became more professional, like facilities, etc. Hiring Saban was a part of it.
But that actually started under DiNardo. I believe he was a northerner and actually laid a good foundation for Saban. He just never was SEC material, but a far improvement over the guys before him.
We're kind of at a similar crossroads now. I think CLM is fine. Hiring Cam was a great move. Facilities are out of sight. But I truly believe that we don't have the legal recruiting machine other top schools have.
School 2011 2010
Tennessee 1,479,099 1,135,211
Alabama 980,882 870,438
Auburn 950,378 678,936
Georgia Tech 883,430 511,494
Arkansas 666,419 693,486
Georgia 623,224 634,386
Texas Tech 611,910 812,217
Florida 602,929 466,145
Oregon 590,683 622,254
North Carolina 580,200 545,351
Texas 577,976 329,736
Michigan 577,663 489,412
Illinois 545,363 537,773
Army 511,840 476,439
Mississippi 495,233 340,670
Memphis 493,204 406,994
Clemson 490,305 469,003
Nebraska 478,554 344,471
Colorado 470,355 438,289
Iowa State 448,777 447,672
Kansas 442,911 366,331
Washington 440,931 313,631
Florida State 433,236 349,444
Purdue 428,805 528,095
UCLA 412,535 384,100
Arizona 411,785 410,202
California 394,298 319,203
Michigan St. 383,448 390,289
Missouri 363,545 349,734
Kansas State 361,196 363,172
Oklahoma 356,414 452,601
Rutgers 350,261 323,920
Minnesota 348,609 615,063
Kentucky 336,035 279,006
Air Force 335,986 335,986
Ohio State 320,938 297,342
Iowa 307,226 207,117
Mississippi St. 306,469 244,024
*** LSU *** 302,882 450,649
This goes back to THE FENCE. So we don't spend a lot of money recruiting because all instate recruits want to come here and it's a 2 hour drive? When it works, that's great. Forward to 2013.
Recruiting costs are more than travel expenses for coaches. It's having staffers that know every bit and crumb of information on every potential recruits. It's sending out tons of personal materials and letters to keep interest high among targets. Getting the word out.
Schools like Bama and AU either have to or want to do a lot of OOS recruiting. But don't kid yourself. There is a lot of talent in Alabama - it's just not good enough for Saban. If Bama go EVERY top player in Bama over AU, and filled out with OOS, there is no way they'd have the success they have.
If indeed there is a turning point again in LSU football, it is this concept of the The Fence. You will live by it and die by it. As more programs recruit nationally, I can say more often than not we will die by it.
I love our LA players staying home. We need to still want to get them. But on the same token, we have to look OOS strongly as well. We can't live every year with this with instate players. They don't commit early because they know we don't have anyone else better than them from OOS.
The Fence served us well, for a long time. But this is a new era in CFB and technology has shrunk the world. You can be 1000miles away and Skype and Tweet every available minute back home.
LSU coaches are doing a great job considering the recruiting budget and we're flying around in prop planes while the others are in jets. But they need some help in the back office.
But that actually started under DiNardo. I believe he was a northerner and actually laid a good foundation for Saban. He just never was SEC material, but a far improvement over the guys before him.
We're kind of at a similar crossroads now. I think CLM is fine. Hiring Cam was a great move. Facilities are out of sight. But I truly believe that we don't have the legal recruiting machine other top schools have.
School 2011 2010
Tennessee 1,479,099 1,135,211
Alabama 980,882 870,438
Auburn 950,378 678,936
Georgia Tech 883,430 511,494
Arkansas 666,419 693,486
Georgia 623,224 634,386
Texas Tech 611,910 812,217
Florida 602,929 466,145
Oregon 590,683 622,254
North Carolina 580,200 545,351
Texas 577,976 329,736
Michigan 577,663 489,412
Illinois 545,363 537,773
Army 511,840 476,439
Mississippi 495,233 340,670
Memphis 493,204 406,994
Clemson 490,305 469,003
Nebraska 478,554 344,471
Colorado 470,355 438,289
Iowa State 448,777 447,672
Kansas 442,911 366,331
Washington 440,931 313,631
Florida State 433,236 349,444
Purdue 428,805 528,095
UCLA 412,535 384,100
Arizona 411,785 410,202
California 394,298 319,203
Michigan St. 383,448 390,289
Missouri 363,545 349,734
Kansas State 361,196 363,172
Oklahoma 356,414 452,601
Rutgers 350,261 323,920
Minnesota 348,609 615,063
Kentucky 336,035 279,006
Air Force 335,986 335,986
Ohio State 320,938 297,342
Iowa 307,226 207,117
Mississippi St. 306,469 244,024
*** LSU *** 302,882 450,649
This goes back to THE FENCE. So we don't spend a lot of money recruiting because all instate recruits want to come here and it's a 2 hour drive? When it works, that's great. Forward to 2013.
Recruiting costs are more than travel expenses for coaches. It's having staffers that know every bit and crumb of information on every potential recruits. It's sending out tons of personal materials and letters to keep interest high among targets. Getting the word out.
Schools like Bama and AU either have to or want to do a lot of OOS recruiting. But don't kid yourself. There is a lot of talent in Alabama - it's just not good enough for Saban. If Bama go EVERY top player in Bama over AU, and filled out with OOS, there is no way they'd have the success they have.
If indeed there is a turning point again in LSU football, it is this concept of the The Fence. You will live by it and die by it. As more programs recruit nationally, I can say more often than not we will die by it.
I love our LA players staying home. We need to still want to get them. But on the same token, we have to look OOS strongly as well. We can't live every year with this with instate players. They don't commit early because they know we don't have anyone else better than them from OOS.
The Fence served us well, for a long time. But this is a new era in CFB and technology has shrunk the world. You can be 1000miles away and Skype and Tweet every available minute back home.
LSU coaches are doing a great job considering the recruiting budget and we're flying around in prop planes while the others are in jets. But they need some help in the back office.
This post was edited on 1/5/14 at 10:00 am
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:46 am to HubbaBubba
"Dark Ages" also known as "The Archmanardo Era".
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:47 am to More&Les
quote:
Mac was the designer and coordinator of the Chinese Bandits
Nope. Paul Dietzel.
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:48 am to More&Les
quote:
Mac was the designer and coordinator of the Chinese Bandits
No, Paul Dietzel "created" the Chinese Bandits
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:48 am to marcnbc
Leave Dinardo away from Archer and Curley
We never get to our heights now without Dinardo. He laid the foundation
We never get to our heights now without Dinardo. He laid the foundation
Posted on 1/5/14 at 9:49 am to MetTiger
quote:
We're kind of at a similar crossroads now. I think CLM is fine. Hiring Cam was a great move. Facilities are out of sight. But I truly believe that we don't have the legal recruiting machine other top schools have.
You serious, Clark?
Page 1 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News