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Message
re: The BCS MANIPULATION
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:31 am to The Sockster
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:31 am to The Sockster
quote:
I wonder if a programmer may not have tweaked the formula in Bama's favor.
Well its certainly begs the question doesnt it?
2
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:34 am to Deathrider
quote:
The problem with the human polls is they are prone to bias more so than computer polls.
I agree with this. What I don't get is all the conspiracy talk around here. I'm supposed to believe that a bunch of coaches and Harris Poll voters (and at least one computer programmer) all got together and gamed the system because Bama is an elite football program, ESPN needed ratings, and OSU was undeserving because they are not football royalty?
No. Human voters can be biased. Computer programs are only as accurate as their human programmers. But this is INDIVIDUAL bias. Not a grand scheme.
When a broken, flawed system produces a flawed result, why are we surprised?
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:36 am to MoreOrLes
OK State was idle. Alabama beats #24 (Sagarin poll ranking) AU. Bama jumps OKS in Sagarin poll.
Following week:
Bama is idle. OK State beats #4 OU. OK State goes nowhere, NEITHER DOES OU, and LSU somehow loses points for WVU, Ducks both winning and beating UGA
Following week:
Bama is idle. OK State beats #4 OU. OK State goes nowhere, NEITHER DOES OU, and LSU somehow loses points for WVU, Ducks both winning and beating UGA
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:37 am to MoreOrLes
Yes it does. OSU blew out Oklahoma while Bama sits at home idle and somehow on 2 computers OSU moves down a notch?! Something really stinks!
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:37 am to SLTiger29
quote:
Bama is idle. OK State beats #4 OU. OK State goes nowhere, NEITHER DOES OU, and LSU somehow loses points for WVU, Ducks both winning and beating UGA
yeah this was weird
only in the sagarin poll can your opponents on the season win while you beat up on a ranked team in the SEC championship game.. and you drop points
This post was edited on 12/6/11 at 11:38 am
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:38 am to lctiger
quote:
If Texas or OU would have had the same resume as OSU, they would be in the NCG. The whole media push was a slap in the face of OSU players, coaches and the Big 12. And I am one that wanted to play Bama again.
This. It was a sham. And that's part of the reason I'm claiming the national championship, TODAY. We were the best team for 2011. Everyone agrees.
I'm not going to let some bullshite extra game cheapen out epic body of work. We won the SEC. That means more than some crystal trinket that Brent Mussberger says is the championship trophy. Please.
Even if we lose this "extra" game, we still have the best resume, BY FAR.
National Championship. Claim it. Don't let the hustlers at ESPN/ABC tell you we need to beat another team. The team that won the wildcard, but got the bye to the Superbowl.
I salute the program, the coaches, the players, and the history of the game by claiming the championship.
That's my conclusion. You may choose to be miserable.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:38 am to DA
quote:
This. It was a sham. And that's part of the reason I'm claiming the national championship, TODAY. We were the best team for 2011. Everyone agrees.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:39 am to MoreOrLes
quote:
The purpose of the thread is to examine WHY bama got to stay @#2 and ESPN role along with the obvious manipulation of the formulas used to determine the BCS.
I'll assume you mean manipulation of the voters. ESPN's coverage may have swayed some voters, but the voters are grown adults. They can make their own decisions.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:48 am to Pauldean
Obviously the fact that some of the computer formulas aren't made public is sketchy but what I can't get over is ESPN/ABC.
I'm used to seeing these clowns on TV 24 hours a day debating some topic where they take opposite viewpoints but what went on in the couple of weeks leading up to the final results show and especially Saturday was crazy.
I can count on one hand how many people on that network even acknowledged that OSU had a chance. It was like it was a forgone conclusion. If people like us have pretty good idea of what needs to happen for OSU to get in, how can ESPN not? It wasn't that far fetched and they just kept repeating the same thing over and over about a rematch. Almost the like if they said it enough that people would believe it and you have to believe that at least some voters took their word for it and didn't really go over the resumes like they should have before the final vote because they figured it made no difference.
Would the result have been different if ESPN had gone into the last week presenting both teams resumes and acting like it was going to come down to the wire? I think it could have.
But instead they said gave Saban the floor all day to talk. Ran a ticker at the bottom of the OSU game basically saying LSU vs Bama in the title game. Plus they spent the whole game talking about how great is was going to be for OSU to finally win the Big 12 and go to the Fiesta bowl. And Brent and Herbie talking about Rocky vs Apollo was repulsive.
It was unreal.
I'm used to seeing these clowns on TV 24 hours a day debating some topic where they take opposite viewpoints but what went on in the couple of weeks leading up to the final results show and especially Saturday was crazy.
I can count on one hand how many people on that network even acknowledged that OSU had a chance. It was like it was a forgone conclusion. If people like us have pretty good idea of what needs to happen for OSU to get in, how can ESPN not? It wasn't that far fetched and they just kept repeating the same thing over and over about a rematch. Almost the like if they said it enough that people would believe it and you have to believe that at least some voters took their word for it and didn't really go over the resumes like they should have before the final vote because they figured it made no difference.
Would the result have been different if ESPN had gone into the last week presenting both teams resumes and acting like it was going to come down to the wire? I think it could have.
But instead they said gave Saban the floor all day to talk. Ran a ticker at the bottom of the OSU game basically saying LSU vs Bama in the title game. Plus they spent the whole game talking about how great is was going to be for OSU to finally win the Big 12 and go to the Fiesta bowl. And Brent and Herbie talking about Rocky vs Apollo was repulsive.
It was unreal.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:50 am to SLTiger29
quote:
OK State was idle. Alabama beats #24 (Sagarin poll ranking) AU. Bama jumps OKS in Sagarin poll.
Following week: Bama is idle. OK State beats #4 OU. OK State goes nowhere, NEITHER DOES OU, and LSU somehow loses points for WVU, Ducks both winning and beating UGA
Maybe UT's blowout loss hurt OSU's computer score?
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:51 am to crimsonsaint
quote:
I'll assume you mean manipulation of the voters. ESPN's coverage may have swayed some voters, but the voters are grown adults. They can make their own decisions.
The Computer Polls could be tampered with as well.
quote:
Adults, They can make their own decisions
Clearly not with the BCS in mind according to The BCS website as I have laid out for you.
This post was edited on 12/6/11 at 11:51 am
Posted on 12/6/11 at 11:53 am to crimsonsaint
Which should have been counter balanced ny Rape State losing the Big10 CG.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 12:01 pm to nm1230
quote:
But instead they said gave Saban the floor all day to talk. Ran a ticker at the bottom of the OSU game basically saying LSU vs Bama in the title game. Plus they spent the whole game talking about how great is was going to be for OSU to finally win the Big 12 and go to the Fiesta bowl. And Brent and Herbie talking about Rocky vs Apollo was repulsive.
This.
There was just an agenda. I really want to know what it was.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 12:02 pm to nm1230
quote:
It was unreal.
Championship weekend WAS unreal. ESPN and ABC were sickening. Biased? Maybe. Unfair? Probably. Conspiracy? Doubt it.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 12:14 pm to SLTiger29
OU getting blown out helped OSU with the voters but it also probably hurt OSU with the computers.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 12:26 pm to crimsonsaint
quote:
OU getting blown out helped OSU with the voters but it also probably hurt OSU with the computers.
i don't think it hurt OSU at all in the computers. Baylor beating Texas probably did a little..
but no one knows why it happened, as wrong as it seems, that algorithm/formula is secret.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 12:32 pm to SLTiger29
quote:
Rex, I agree with this. A playoff system would make things even worse. But I think its possible to create a formula where your wins are worth X, your wins over top teams are worth xy, etc. Im sure you could factor im things like CCGs, winning on the road, MOV, and you would maintain the sanctity of the regular season and the prestige of the bowl games, and still determine a true NC
Remember, we had this before 2003.
What happened?
An entitled/media darling team (USC) was "shafted" in they eyes of the media. So, we changed the formula.
If we used the 2003 formula, OSU is in the game despite the human polls because of quality wins.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 12:32 pm to MoreOrLes
My only beef is that there should not be human polls. Human are bias. On the other hand, common sense needs to come into play and the computers can be biased, based on the program. Coaches poll is a joke. These guys don't have time to watch games. They are focused on getting their teams ready and recruiting, amoung spending time with their families. Do you think Coach Miles watched a bunch of Okie st games, other than him being a former coach for that team. If you don't watch the games, then you cannot vote as you should. You see scores. A team wins, move em up, team loses, move em down. Just like Herbie said. Harris I don't know enough about, but for all of the computers, they should have to reveal their programs and how they work. There was an error just last year in one of the computers. Mistakes happen.
I do think they got it right. LSU and Bama are the best two teams from what I have seen. Big 12 is overrated. See Texas in 09, Oklahoma in 08, etc, etc, etc.
I do think they got it right. LSU and Bama are the best two teams from what I have seen. Big 12 is overrated. See Texas in 09, Oklahoma in 08, etc, etc, etc.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 12:46 pm to Weaver
human polls are a must imo.
Posted on 12/6/11 at 12:48 pm to Tacoma Tiger
quote:
I think this is ESPN creating as much controversy as they can because they will now use this to push for a 4 team playoff.
+1, they have an agenda IMO.
they twisted (ignored)the stats. Ok ST had better stats than Bama..whether OK St could beat Bama or not is a different subject.
It also helped that BAMA was no 1...easier to stay there than for Ok St to move up
IMO, Ok St did what they had to do by beating OK as they did.
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