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Message
Spring Game QB/WR Discussion
Posted on 4/21/15 at 10:43 am
Posted on 4/21/15 at 10:43 am
Because we haven't had enough of it here by Tuesday, I'd like to add my take.
Personally, I think two huge issues impacted the passing game last year. Issues that were outside of the sphere of influence of Miles' meddling (which definitely does occur; to what degree I'm honestly not certain) in scheme and playcalling. Issues that forced us into a Turtle Shell of an offensive mindset. Issues that I think-based off of my amateur-hour opinion-are on their way to being corrected.
In specific, our receivers are a year older and have gone through some steady changes in physique. Last year, we had a trio of fast kids with good hands. The problem was that they lacked the physicality to get off the jam at the line. Against press man coverage, they simply were not winning. Routinely rerouted as a result, this completely jacked up both timing and rhythm in the pass game. Technique alone couldn't help them win. It takes size and strength, and that doesn't develop overnight.
If anyone saw Dural and Dupre on Saturday, you know that they've bridged the gap. Chark has a ways to go, and Quinn and Diarse were physical to begin with and have increased their gains in this department.
On this part alone, I think we'll improve route-running and make the QB's look better.
The 2nd aspect is that with Harris, we'll see an improvement in accuracy. Yes, I'm assuming Jennings won't start. Yes I understand how presumptuous that is. No, I'm not trashing Jennings. But reality is that he's simply not accurate enough to compete for Division and Conference Titles.
Two examples from Saturday are evident of the difference between Harris & Jennings. One was talked about by ATVS in their Spring Game writeup: The 70 yard bomb to Dural down the East Sideline from Jennings. Many saw that as a great play, but ATVS and I saw it as a bad throw. When Dural has to wait on a throw so long that he ends up getting run down from behind by anyone not named Trindon Holliday or Usain Bolt, the pass simply wasn't thrown well enough.
I'm not looking at 70 yard pass in the mouth like a gift horse. I'm saying that a properly thrown ball would've been a 70+ yard TD pass instead. LSU simply cannot afford to leave points on the board as an offense. We have to get better there.
The other example was a throw towards the East Side when Jennings was QB'ing from NEZ to SEZ. He throws a comeback route to Diarse off either a waggle or boot action. On the run, he hits Diarse with a throw that brings John to his knees and the ground in order to catch. The result is a nice 5 yard gain that keeps the offense moving.
In reality, an accurate pass between the numbers lets Diarse turn up the field and gain additional yardage, potentially move the chains if not rack up a chunk yardage play. Which is the entire point of the Cam Cameron passing offense.
After three Spring Football sessions, two Fall Camps, one season as Starter and two bowl game starts, Jennings is simply not where and who we need him to be.
Fix these two simple, correctable issues, and we can compete for the Division and be in the CFB Playoff Hunt.
Personally, I think two huge issues impacted the passing game last year. Issues that were outside of the sphere of influence of Miles' meddling (which definitely does occur; to what degree I'm honestly not certain) in scheme and playcalling. Issues that forced us into a Turtle Shell of an offensive mindset. Issues that I think-based off of my amateur-hour opinion-are on their way to being corrected.
In specific, our receivers are a year older and have gone through some steady changes in physique. Last year, we had a trio of fast kids with good hands. The problem was that they lacked the physicality to get off the jam at the line. Against press man coverage, they simply were not winning. Routinely rerouted as a result, this completely jacked up both timing and rhythm in the pass game. Technique alone couldn't help them win. It takes size and strength, and that doesn't develop overnight.
If anyone saw Dural and Dupre on Saturday, you know that they've bridged the gap. Chark has a ways to go, and Quinn and Diarse were physical to begin with and have increased their gains in this department.
On this part alone, I think we'll improve route-running and make the QB's look better.
The 2nd aspect is that with Harris, we'll see an improvement in accuracy. Yes, I'm assuming Jennings won't start. Yes I understand how presumptuous that is. No, I'm not trashing Jennings. But reality is that he's simply not accurate enough to compete for Division and Conference Titles.
Two examples from Saturday are evident of the difference between Harris & Jennings. One was talked about by ATVS in their Spring Game writeup: The 70 yard bomb to Dural down the East Sideline from Jennings. Many saw that as a great play, but ATVS and I saw it as a bad throw. When Dural has to wait on a throw so long that he ends up getting run down from behind by anyone not named Trindon Holliday or Usain Bolt, the pass simply wasn't thrown well enough.
I'm not looking at 70 yard pass in the mouth like a gift horse. I'm saying that a properly thrown ball would've been a 70+ yard TD pass instead. LSU simply cannot afford to leave points on the board as an offense. We have to get better there.
The other example was a throw towards the East Side when Jennings was QB'ing from NEZ to SEZ. He throws a comeback route to Diarse off either a waggle or boot action. On the run, he hits Diarse with a throw that brings John to his knees and the ground in order to catch. The result is a nice 5 yard gain that keeps the offense moving.
In reality, an accurate pass between the numbers lets Diarse turn up the field and gain additional yardage, potentially move the chains if not rack up a chunk yardage play. Which is the entire point of the Cam Cameron passing offense.
After three Spring Football sessions, two Fall Camps, one season as Starter and two bowl game starts, Jennings is simply not where and who we need him to be.
Fix these two simple, correctable issues, and we can compete for the Division and be in the CFB Playoff Hunt.
7
Posted on 4/21/15 at 11:04 am to GFunk
I was impressed with Chi, Dural, Diarse, Chark and Desean Smith. Chi the most of all but thats obvious with the great catch he made. Also the Offense runs so smooth with Harris in, He also makes really good decisions with the ball in his hands.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 11:18 am to GFunk
quote:
Last year, we had a trio of fast kids with good hands. The problem was that they lacked the physicality to get off the jam at the line. Against press man coverage, they simply were not winning. Routinely rerouted as a result, this completely jacked up both timing and rhythm in the pass game.
For the 1st qtr, Dural was getting pounded at the line of scrimmage by KT. Not sure if his old habits are arising again, or if KT is just that good in M2M.
The rest of your post is spot-on, although I believe a lot of Jennings problems are due to his weak arm. His mechanics dont look that bad, he just has to overcompensate for his arm, where Harris simply goes to his normal throwing motion.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 11:26 am to Tiger Nation 84
Did Avery Peterson see any action in the Spring Game?
Posted on 4/21/15 at 11:27 am to GFunk
quote:
The 70 yard bomb to Dural down the East Sideline from Jennings. Many saw that as a great play, but ATVS and I saw it as a bad throw
you're analyzing this play incorrectly, IMO. Jennings was rolling to his left, had a linebacker (or safety) charging him, saw Dural wide open and chunked it deep. That is a very difficult throw across your body. Based on the fact that he was rolling left, the play probably wasn't even designed for a deep throw, Dural's was basically a clear-out route, but he was so open Jennings could make the play.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 11:32 am to ForeLSU
I see what you are saying that it is a hard throw, but BH can make that throw much better than AJ.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 11:46 am to PLaneTiger
quote:
I see what you are saying that it is a hard throw, but BH can make that throw much better than AJ.
true, but BH might have taken off running once he saw the LB/S charging him and not have seen how open Dural was...who knows. You just can't simply evaluate arm strength to decide which one is the best option.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 11:49 am to ForeLSU
quote:
You just can't simply evaluate arm strength to decide which one is the best option.
AJ's decision making isn't a strength. He is someone that Miles likes. Miles may like Harris, but he doesn't want the fans making decisions for him, even the obvious ones.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 12:07 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote:
AJ's decision making isn't a strength. He is someone that Miles likes. Miles may like Harris, but he doesn't want the fans making decisions for him, even the obvious ones.
So what you are saying is that Miles will make his decisions based not upon what transpires in practice and meetings but upon what transpires on message boards?
And that his goal every year isn't to play the guys that he thinks gives LSU the best chance at victory, rather he plays guys just to piss you off?
Call your mom right and apologize for being an idiot and embarrassing her. She had high hopes for you.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 12:21 pm to ForeLSU
It was a badly blown coverage, nobody was within 30 yards of Dural, and AJ simply did not want to over throw him. He almost did the same thing to Dupre on a busted coverage play when Chi was so wide open, but Chi adjusted to the ball and caught it. AJ put a little too much air under the ball to Dural which allowed a DB to run Dural down.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 12:29 pm to GFunk
Most of this was posted in other threads. However, this looks like it might be a serious thread, so I'll post it here. I hope this threads stays away from partisan hackery like: Jennings only plays because Miles favors him.
. . . . . . . Comp . . Att . . Comp% . Efficiency . . Yds . . YPA . . TDs . Ints
Jennings . . 13 . . . 20 . . . 65.0% . . . 199.6 . . . . 242 . . . 12.1 . . 2 . . . 0
Harris . . . . 11 . . . 17 . . . 64.7% . . . 179.7 . . . . 178 . . . 10.5 . . 2 . . . 1
Harris looked a smidge better with the White compared to Jennings.
With the Purple, Jennings looked poised and played solidly. Harris looked a little panicky and played to run. In the first series, he had a a receiver open, and he opted to keep it.
My biggest concern with Harris is that he excels when playing against over-matched defenses. Harris played great against MSU, NMSU, and Purple. However, he has happy feet and looks to run when playing against solid defenses: Auburn and White are perfect examples.
There will be many games this year when LSU WON'T be playing against over-matched defenses. LSU won't be successful if Harris continues to bust plays and take off. He had several plays that he turned into ill-advised runs.
The Spring Game is just a scrimmage. Hell, the Spring Game means less than any spring practice because both Jennings and Harris were on their asses for more than half of the time.
Fans put way too much emphasis on the Spring Game because it's about all they get to see of the QBs. But for the coaches, the Spring Game represents probably less than 5% of what they get to see of the QBs.
. . . . . . . Comp . . Att . . Comp% . Efficiency . . Yds . . YPA . . TDs . Ints
Jennings . . 13 . . . 20 . . . 65.0% . . . 199.6 . . . . 242 . . . 12.1 . . 2 . . . 0
Harris . . . . 11 . . . 17 . . . 64.7% . . . 179.7 . . . . 178 . . . 10.5 . . 2 . . . 1
Harris looked a smidge better with the White compared to Jennings.
With the Purple, Jennings looked poised and played solidly. Harris looked a little panicky and played to run. In the first series, he had a a receiver open, and he opted to keep it.
My biggest concern with Harris is that he excels when playing against over-matched defenses. Harris played great against MSU, NMSU, and Purple. However, he has happy feet and looks to run when playing against solid defenses: Auburn and White are perfect examples.
There will be many games this year when LSU WON'T be playing against over-matched defenses. LSU won't be successful if Harris continues to bust plays and take off. He had several plays that he turned into ill-advised runs.
The Spring Game is just a scrimmage. Hell, the Spring Game means less than any spring practice because both Jennings and Harris were on their asses for more than half of the time.
Fans put way too much emphasis on the Spring Game because it's about all they get to see of the QBs. But for the coaches, the Spring Game represents probably less than 5% of what they get to see of the QBs.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 12:45 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:
So what you are saying is that Miles will make his decisions based not upon what transpires in practice and meetings but upon what transpires on message boards?
No, I'm saying that Miles has proven so many times in the past that he's going to stick with his guys. It's like you fools forget Jefferson throwing it at players feet for 4 quarters in the national championship without even trying another QB. How about being shut out last year against Arkansas of all teams who had a coach who had never won an SEC game in two seasons. Now that we are in the offseason all is forgotton...you say the same dumb shite like "do you really think Miles won't play the best players???!! Lolol" when he has shown in the past that he doesn't always do that. I hope he intends on playing the best guy but unlike you naive nutt huggers I have a decent memory.
quote:
And that his goal every year isn't to play the guys that he thinks gives LSU the best chance at victory
Playing for victory? Why am I responding to you again? Clearly you think the guy can do no wrong since he has you speaking like him
Posted on 4/21/15 at 12:49 pm to Salviati
quote:
Salviati
quote:
Most of this was posted in other threads. However, this looks like it might be a serious thread, so I'll post it here. I hope this threads stays away from partisan hackery like: Jennings only plays because Miles favors him. . . . . . . . Comp . . Att . . Comp% . Efficiency . . Yds . . YPA . . TDs . Ints Jennings . . 13 . . . 20 . . . 65.0% . . . 199.6 . . . . 242 . . . 12.1 . . 2 . . . 0 Harris . . . . 11 . . . 17 . . . 64.7% . . . 179.7 . . . . 178 . . . 10.5 . . 2 . . . 1 Harris looked a smidge better with the White compared to Jennings. With the Purple, Jennings looked poised and played solidly. Harris looked a little panicky and played to run. In the first series, he had a a receiver open, and he opted to keep it. My biggest concern with Harris is that he excels when playing against over-matched defenses. Harris played great against MSU, NMSU, and Purple. However, he has happy feet and looks to run when playing against solid defenses: Auburn and White are perfect examples. There will be many games this year when LSU WON'T be playing against over-matched defenses. LSU won't be successful if Harris continues to bust plays and take off. He had several plays that he turned into ill-advised runs. The Spring Game is just a scrimmage. Hell, the Spring Game means less than any spring practice because both Jennings and Harris were on their asses for more than half of the time. Fans put way too much emphasis on the Spring Game because it's about all they get to see of the QBs. But for the coaches, the Spring Game represents probably less than 5% of what they get to see of the QBs.
Great contribution. However Jennings misfired on 4 straight passes and looked fairly shaky during this same scrimmage as well.
I'd also wager an ice-cold Abita beverage of your choice that Harris will not consistently face the pressure and pocket collapsing as often and repeatedly as he did being the 2nd string offensive line when facing the 1st string Defensive Line.
There's a reflexive explanation for your take on the situation that applies to Harris' discomfort and I'm sure you see that in what I explained above. You don't truly think the LSU OL will be that porous next Fall do you?
The misfires that I saw out of Jennings were on throws against 2nd stringers to 1st stringers. There was nobody around on the waggle/boot throw to Diarse. He also did not throw on the run. He stopped and squared up before letting that 60 mph rainbow changeup go.
I don't want partisanship in here either. The hack stuff tires me out. But Jennings is a guy that isn't going to get the job done. Against zero pressure with nobody around using 1st stringers, this guy is inconsistent after 3 Spring Practices, an entire season and two bowl game starts as the man.
Harris is improving. Jennings is still the same guy. The choice is clear.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 1:01 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote::smh: Lol
I have a decent memory.
Your post is pure hackery. You twist the facts to present your biased bullshite.
Perhaps, just perhaps, Harris wasn't ready, and his ankle was injured. Possible . . . you know, if Harris says that's EXACTLY what happened?
quote:Jefferson completed 65% of his passes in the NCG. The problem was not inaccuracy. Perhaps Miles should have tried Lee, but it wasn't irrational to keep trying Jefferson. That strategy worked in the GOTC, against Arkansas, and in the SECCG.
It's like you fools forget Jefferson throwing it at players feet for 4 quarters in the national championship without even trying another QB.
quote:Arkansas had a stout defense in 2014.
How about being shut out last year against Arkansas of all teams who had a coach who had never won an SEC game in two seasons.
Total Defense: 2nd in the SEC.
Held Bama to 66 yards rushing.
Held Ole Miss to 63 yards rushing.
Held Texas to 2 yards rushing. Yes, 2 yards.
quote:
I have a decent memory.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 1:08 pm to Salviati
quote:
Your post is pure hackery. You twist the facts to present your biased bullshite
What did I twist? Everything I said was straight forward. And more importantly, why are you so butthurt over it?
quote:
Perhaps Miles should have tried Lee, but it wasn't irrational to keep trying Jefferson. That strategy worked in the GOTC, against Arkansas, and in the SECCG.
What was the strategy, have #7 bail us out for the 3rd straight game? If there was a game plan, it was the worst ever for a national championship game. Jefferson was a big part of that. I was never a big Lee guy, my point is that Les is an emotional head coach and not a strategist. He's going to do what feels right. That is why AJ will start THIS year. I've seen your posts. You do whatever it takes to defend Miles without trying to be objective. I don't hate Les but he frustrates me and the reasons why are obvious.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 1:39 pm to GFunk
quote:
'm not looking at 70 yard pass in the mouth like a gift horse. I'm saying that a properly thrown ball would've been a 70+ yard TD pass instead. LSU simply cannot afford to leave points on the board as an offense. We have to get better there.
Exactly. Scoring the TD on those plays can be the difference between winning and losing. Our offense (as well as others) can have a difficult time scoring TD's in the red zone. Obviously, it's very difficult to operate the passing game with everyone bunched up near the goal line.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 1:42 pm to Salviati
quote:
My biggest concern with Harris is that he excels when playing against over-matched defenses.
At least he excels at something.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 1:55 pm to minvielle
Can you two get a room, exchange e-mails or just stop talking about the 2012 BCSCG. This thread has ZERO to do with that subject.
TIA
ETA: Not aimed at you mineville
TIA
ETA: Not aimed at you mineville
This post was edited on 4/21/15 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 4/21/15 at 2:07 pm to GFunk
What frustrates me about Jennings is how poorly he throws screens and short passes...he had 2-3 short passes where he missed the receiver by 5 yards...usually QBs with a mediocre arm have great touch, he has none..,
I am not 100% sure Harris is better today, but I have seen enough of Jennings. I would rather take our lumps with Harris than deal with Jennings some more...
I am not 100% sure Harris is better today, but I have seen enough of Jennings. I would rather take our lumps with Harris than deal with Jennings some more...
Posted on 4/21/15 at 2:10 pm to thekid
quote:
thekid
quote:
What frustrates me about Jennings is how poorly he throws screens and short passes...he had 2-3 short passes where he missed the receiver by 5 yards...usually QBs with a mediocre arm have great touch, he has none.., I am not 100% sure Harris is better today, but I have seen enough of Jennings. I would rather take our lumps with Harris than deal with Jennings some more...
I feel the same way. Harris is the type of kid who is going to steadily improve as he goes. Which means the offense as a whole will improve as he goes.
Jennings is who he is and the offense will not move beyond his own limitations. Simply put: his ceiling is lower and he's already much closer to it than Harris.
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