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re: One thing sure has become abundantly clear....
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:09 pm to uway
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:09 pm to uway
quote:
I just want the Les pumpers to be consistent.
If Les wasn't handed anything special, like they have said for years when defending Les, because the 2004 team went 9-4 (never mind that it was 9-3, never mind that it was an 11 game regular season with one less rent-a-win), then surely the next coach is inheriting mediocrity by getting a 9-3 last year and 2-2 this year team.
If the next coach wins 2 SEC titles and 1 2-loss national title in the next 12 seasons he will deserve a statue, I guess.
amazing.
1
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:10 pm to BilJ
While I hear most of you, and I absolutely loved the performance Saturday night, LSU had at least four things going for it that won't always be the case in the remaining 7 games:
1. They were home, which provided for home field advantage (at least for the first half) and fed into the player's emotions.
2. The players were amped. They just had their coach fired in front of their eyes for the team's poor performances out of the gate and many were fired up to take that pain out on Missouri.
3. They were playing Missouri. A 4-8/5-7 team.
4. Missouri had little time to prepare for what they might see from Ensminger. Now there is at least some tape.
Again, don't get me wrong, Saturday night was glorious. I hope the OP is correct and this was all about throwing Miles overboard. But I've seen Miles teams play similarly (look no further than Auburn 2015 and Texas Tech in the bowl game). I'm optimistic but I want to see this type of performance (or close to it) when we play quality teams, who have scouted us, when the emotion of the firing is gone and (in some cases) when we are on the road.
1. They were home, which provided for home field advantage (at least for the first half) and fed into the player's emotions.
2. The players were amped. They just had their coach fired in front of their eyes for the team's poor performances out of the gate and many were fired up to take that pain out on Missouri.
3. They were playing Missouri. A 4-8/5-7 team.
4. Missouri had little time to prepare for what they might see from Ensminger. Now there is at least some tape.
Again, don't get me wrong, Saturday night was glorious. I hope the OP is correct and this was all about throwing Miles overboard. But I've seen Miles teams play similarly (look no further than Auburn 2015 and Texas Tech in the bowl game). I'm optimistic but I want to see this type of performance (or close to it) when we play quality teams, who have scouted us, when the emotion of the firing is gone and (in some cases) when we are on the road.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:11 pm to uway
quote:
"Success" is a relative term.
I get that, I'm just asking if 1 NC and 2 SEC Championships between now and 2028 would be acceptable to you. Let's say it is sandwiched between 8-11 win seasons. Would you sign up for that right now?
This isn't a gotcha or anything. Yes, I'm basically asking if the same results that Miles had would be acceptable, but I'm not denying that he underachieved at times too. I'm just genuinely curious where fans believe the standard at LSU should be set going forward.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:12 pm to ROPO
again....
quote:
its how we did it that has people encouraged. We did things on offense that helped open up our run game instead of slamming up against a wall until we eventually imposed our will on a much less talented opponent winning by a slim margin.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:13 pm to slackster
quote:
regardless of how it happens, would you consider 2 SEC championships and 1 national title in the next 12 years a success? I'm not trolling or anything, I'm genuinely curious.
But you can't disregard how it happens. This is part of the disconnect between the pro/anti Miles camps. It's why you can simultaneously point to Miles's overall record and shout "greatest LSU coach ever" and then look at his head scratchers and say "WTF". How it happens is absolutely imperative to determining success.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:13 pm to CptBengal
quote:
CptBengal
I pose the same question to you that I asked of uway - if you could sign up for a NC and 2 conference championships in the next 12 years, would you do it?
I'm not going to turn this into a pro or anti-Miles thing - I just want to get a baseline for what is considered the new standard for LSU.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:16 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
. How it happens is absolutely imperative to determining success.
what he said
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:16 pm to BilJ
Certainly not in Cam's corner but the more I read and hear talk shows , it seems to me that Miles really was the culprit. Now Cam and Les being best friends and Les Best Man in Cam's wedding or the other way around , I'm not sure, I wonder if Cam really would have been a good Offensive Coordinator without Miles. Again , not saying that Cam was good at all as he has been terminated from so many other jobs but I wonder if Les was the real culprit?
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:16 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
But you can't disregard how it happens. This is part of the disconnect between the pro/anti Miles camps. It's why you can simultaneously point to Miles's overall record and shout "greatest LSU coach ever" and then look at his head scratchers and say "WTF". How it happens is absolutely imperative to determining success.
No, I get that. I said as much earlier. This isn't about whether Les is a good coach or whatever - this is about establishing a baseline of success for a new regime. Overachieving with bad players and going 8-5 feels different than underachieving with good players and going 8-5, and I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm simply asking what is the appropriate standard for championships at LSU going forward.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:17 pm to BilJ
Getting up 35-0 is always helpful,but I noticed a lot more zip on the sidelines. Staff seemed to be more engaged and pumped up.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:18 pm to slackster
quote:
I pose the same question to you that I asked of uway - if you could sign up for a NC and 2 conference championships in the next 12 years, would you do it?
would that require 5 straight years of .500 SEC play moving onto a last 3 years of < .500 SEC play?
tia.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:19 pm to RedTigerRulz
quote:
Well technically, CEO is batting .1000 right now so his winning % is higher than Les's...jus saying!
ED ORGERON LSU TENURE
# 1 win % in lsu history
# 1 win % in sec history
These are facts. Im sorry these facts are facts.
DEAL WITH IT.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:20 pm to slackster
quote:
No, I get that. I said as much earlier. This isn't about whether Les is a good coach or whatever - this is about establishing a baseline of success for a new regime. Overachieving with bad players and going 8-5 feels different than underachieving with good players and going 8-5, and I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm simply asking what is the appropriate standard for championships at LSU going forward.
Oh, so you're admitting that the standard is a subjective determination, but you want an objective standard?
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:20 pm to BilJ
quote:
what he said
Sure, but at some level you can say that no matter how it happens, I'll sign up for X NCs and Y SEC Championships in the next decade or so. Or vice versa, even if LSU football is "fun" for a decade straight, surely there is a minimum of NCs and/or SEC Championships that establish a successful decade.
Put it this way - although X NC(s) and Y SEC championship(s) don't guarantee that things were a success, they're required at a minimum.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:21 pm to CptBengal
quote:
would that require 5 straight years of .500 SEC play moving onto a last 3 years of < .500 SEC play?
Only bama had a better win loss record in the sec during those supposed horrible years. It was time to move on from miles but lets not act like we sucked the last 5 years.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:21 pm to CptBengal
quote:
would that require 5 straight years of .500 SEC play moving onto a last 3 years of < .500 SEC play? tia.
This isn't some gotcha that I'm trying to spin around on you. I want your answer. There is a minimum number that is absolutely required, but doesn't guarantee that things were a success. What is that number?
ETA: I can't promise that Rickdaddy or BeeFense won't try to spin it one way or the other, but that isn't my intent.
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:22 pm to slackster
quote:
I get that, I'm just asking if 1 NC and 2 SEC Championships between now and 2028 would be acceptable to you. Let's say it is sandwiched between 8-11 win seasons. Would you sign up for that right now?
This isn't a gotcha or anything. Yes, I'm basically asking if the same results that Miles had would be acceptable, but I'm not denying that he underachieved at times too. I'm just genuinely curious where fans believe the standard at LSU should be set going forward
I genuinely believe the program is in worse shape now than it was in December 04, so I would be relatively more impressed with that than I was with Miles's tenure.
That's assuming that the next coach seems like he knows which way is up. If he seems a little lost, can't speak, and his teams play like Miles's so often did, I won't think him a grand success, because I read those things as signs that he isn't making the most of things.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:23 pm to BilJ
We rushed for 418 yards Saturday night. We ran for 377 v. Texas Tech in the Bowl game.
We had 634 yards of total offense on Saturday night. We had 638 yards of total offense against Texas Tech in the Bowl game.
We scored 42 Saturday night (should've been 45). We scored 56 against Texas Tech in the bowl game.
I loved the bowl game offense. I loved Saturday night's offense. We have a one game sample size. Be happy but keep it in perspective.
I WANT to be where you are on this. I just need more evidence.
We had 634 yards of total offense on Saturday night. We had 638 yards of total offense against Texas Tech in the Bowl game.
We scored 42 Saturday night (should've been 45). We scored 56 against Texas Tech in the bowl game.
I loved the bowl game offense. I loved Saturday night's offense. We have a one game sample size. Be happy but keep it in perspective.
I WANT to be where you are on this. I just need more evidence.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:24 pm to uway
quote:
I genuinely believe the program is in worse shape now than it was in December 04, so I would be relatively more impressed with that than I was with Miles's tenure. That's assuming that the next coach seems like he knows which way is up. If he seems a little lost, can't speak, and his teams play like Miles's so often did, I won't think him a grand success, because I read those things as signs that he isn't making the most of things.
How about this - at a minimum, a new coach should win an SEC Championship in __ years or else we need to move on.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 4:24 pm to slackster
quote:
This isn't some gotcha that I'm trying to spin around on you. I want your answer. There is a minimum number that is absolutely required, but doesn't guarantee that things were a success. What is that number?
I want t ogive you an answer, but those facts occurred along with your conditions.
if i have to accept one to get the other, the answer is no.
In reality, with the talent here, we should have done better under Miles. He consistently underachieved every single year.
even the year he won the national championship.
UNDER achieved.
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