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Posted on 9/20/10 at 1:40 am to jdrumdog
lets be realistic...jefferson is not a good passer he just dosen't make a lot of hurtfull mistakes...miles still wakes up 3 times a week with nightmares of 2008 and the pick sixes. lsu is dead last in passing yards in the sec by a large margin. averaging less than 120 yards a game passing. im kinda of tired being ranked 109th in our passing offense with an upperclassmen qb. 
Posted on 9/20/10 at 2:06 am to TaserTiger
quote:
While playcalling seems to be offensive, I don't have any suggestions how to correct that. I have read most threads/posts over the last several weeks and the topic usually turns into QB play (JJ)/lack of backup QB play (JL).
Many posters ask why not bring in JL when JJ is not doing well or if LSU is getting too far behind to the opponent. But when exactly would this be? When we're losing by 21 points? When we're behind 222 - 0 like Cumberland losing to Georgia Tech?
I don't recall anyone asking why Miles doesn't have the gameplan scripted so the backup QB (JL) comes in at a given point in a game. Why couldn't this be tried by Miles? He could call both JJ and JL into his office on a Monday and discuss this with them. He could say: "Guys, in order to better prepare our team for the upcoming big games of this year I would like to get both of you on the field this Saturday. JJ - you will start as usual and play most of the 1st half. JL will come in on the 2nd series of the 2nd quarter and play 3 series or until halftime (whichever comes first). JJ - you will start the 2nd half and play into the 4th quarter. If we are behind you will will continue playing rest of the game. If we are well in control JL will go in mid 4th quarter to close the game out."
This is just one example and one possible scenario. West Virginia (3-0 record) might not be the best team to try this with. Mississippi State would have been a better choice, IMO. Why have I not seen this being asked (realize I could have missed it)? Miles could do this. To me (IMHO), there should be no way that this type of communication, planning and spirit shared ahead of time among several members of the Unity Council and Les Miles dampens the spirits of JJ. But, I don't know. I am not there. Again, just my opinion and I'll throw it out there. Why not?
Posted on 9/20/10 at 4:22 am to Chicken
On a positive note, it was nice to enjoy some first posession "success." Also, congrats to Jasper on the record (although I agree with most that I hope to never have to see it again). We are fortunate to have such consistency in our kicking game like we have the past 4-5 years. We scored on every possession but one. That's "encouraging."
The fans at the game, IMO, were relatively patient- even inside the stadium- after 3 straight field goals. After the 4th, it became painfully obvious that NO adjustments were being made in the offense to change field goals into touchdowns. I can't understand the notion of being complacent this early in the season/SEC play with just points. I love the wins. I love the defense. I do not like watching our boys trot off the field after missing another opportunity to put 6 on the board.
JJ did what he was asked to do. Ridley has responded extremely well after some fumbling trouble early. Hard to comment on the receivers. O-line has been refreshingly dominant. But there is just nothing exciting about this offense. Everyone can literally predict when the read give or the read option is going to be run. There is ZERO sideline threat, and it isn't because we have no athletes to make the play. If there is no confidence in JJ to make a downfield throw, then I'd like to see a change. If there IS confidence in him, then let him build confidence in himself and let it loose! We all know that there will be a point in time that our offense will be pressed to score points and score points quickly. Running Shepard on a sweep out of the shotgun should not be our only hope for a play for 35+ yards.
All meaningless words aside, it's depressing to watch highlights from other teams from games in our own conference where a receiver catches a ball in stride and goes 60 yards downfield for a touchdown. At this point in the season, it seems hopeless to see that from the purple and gold this year.
The fans at the game, IMO, were relatively patient- even inside the stadium- after 3 straight field goals. After the 4th, it became painfully obvious that NO adjustments were being made in the offense to change field goals into touchdowns. I can't understand the notion of being complacent this early in the season/SEC play with just points. I love the wins. I love the defense. I do not like watching our boys trot off the field after missing another opportunity to put 6 on the board.
JJ did what he was asked to do. Ridley has responded extremely well after some fumbling trouble early. Hard to comment on the receivers. O-line has been refreshingly dominant. But there is just nothing exciting about this offense. Everyone can literally predict when the read give or the read option is going to be run. There is ZERO sideline threat, and it isn't because we have no athletes to make the play. If there is no confidence in JJ to make a downfield throw, then I'd like to see a change. If there IS confidence in him, then let him build confidence in himself and let it loose! We all know that there will be a point in time that our offense will be pressed to score points and score points quickly. Running Shepard on a sweep out of the shotgun should not be our only hope for a play for 35+ yards.
All meaningless words aside, it's depressing to watch highlights from other teams from games in our own conference where a receiver catches a ball in stride and goes 60 yards downfield for a touchdown. At this point in the season, it seems hopeless to see that from the purple and gold this year.
Posted on 9/20/10 at 8:50 am to TheLurch30
"What if you don't need to open it up to win tonight.
What if, in the vast hierarchy of priorities, it is more important to develop your starting QB?
I seem to recall Bertman mixing things up in the middle of the season to have the winning combination when it mattered.
Bertman knew that preparing the team to win a championship is more important than winning each game by the largest margin."
What if, in the vast hierarchy of priorities, it is more important to develop your starting QB?
I seem to recall Bertman mixing things up in the middle of the season to have the winning combination when it mattered.
Bertman knew that preparing the team to win a championship is more important than winning each game by the largest margin."
Posted on 9/20/10 at 9:32 am to bravebyrd
I brought a Texas A&M grad to the game Saturday and half way through the game these were his exact words.
"I don't fault Jefferson at all for not having impressive numbers. The play calling is terrible. They only call shot or deep passing plays. There are no intermediate (15-20 yds) plays being called. Jefferson is not a very accurate thrower, but all the blame cannot be put on him. Until I see him throwing those 15-20 yd throws I can't say he that he is incapable of leading the offense. He is ideal for the half arse offense that is being called."
Again those are his words not mine but it was good to get an outsiders perspective.
"I don't fault Jefferson at all for not having impressive numbers. The play calling is terrible. They only call shot or deep passing plays. There are no intermediate (15-20 yds) plays being called. Jefferson is not a very accurate thrower, but all the blame cannot be put on him. Until I see him throwing those 15-20 yd throws I can't say he that he is incapable of leading the offense. He is ideal for the half arse offense that is being called."
Again those are his words not mine but it was good to get an outsiders perspective.
This post was edited on 9/20/10 at 9:33 am
Posted on 9/20/10 at 9:37 am to Negatiger2
quote:There is development, and then there is development.
This kid has started for more than a season now, his development is not happening. If we continue to "develop" him at this rate he might be a sec caliber qb in 20 years
Skills Development
Jefferson is developing in the sense that he is becoming a better QB. The UNC and the MSU game demonstrate that he is becoming a better QB. Sure, he made five mistakes in the UNC game, but it was the first game of the year, and he played well.
In the MSU game, Jefferson performed excellently the tasks he was called upon to perform. Was it perfect? No. It is not realistic to expect perfection. (Did Russell Shepard play perfectly? No, and his imperfections contributed to the negative discussions about Jefferson.) Jefferson ran well for a QB, and he threw well.
Confidence Development
Part of being a thrower, QB or pitcher, is believing that you can do it. There are few things worse for the performance of a QB, then pressing, and that comes from trying to do things that you don't feel confident doing.
When a thrower starts to over-think the act of throwing, the thrower tends to get unsatisfactory results: (1) aiming (bad), (2) guiding (bad), (3) releasing the ball late (low throws), (4) overcompensating, and (5) throwing it where no one can catch it (avoiding interceptions). Jefferson has tended to suffer from 3 and 4.
The biggest problem with pressing is that it leads to more pressing. It can be a downward spiral of failure and doom. Some QBs get flushed out because of the downward spiral of pressing and over-thinking.
When a QB believes he can make the throws, he performs much better because he avoids the results of pressing and over-thinking. When the QB is confident, it's just pitch and catch.
Thus, confidence is key, but more importantly, confidence can be fluid.
Some QBs can feel confident in one game and less confident in another. Some QBs have more trouble than other QBs in away games. Some QBs have more trouble than others in the rain. Some QBs have more trouble in windy conditions.
Last week, Jefferson played his worst game as a Tiger. Worst by a wide margin. It was fairly obvious to me that he was pressing. Jefferson threw an interception in the endzone to wipe out a possible scoring opportunity.
When LSU ran three plays up the middle, LSU was up 26 to 7 in the fourth quarter. The game was in hand. Jefferson had played a great game with zero turnovers. Why risk all of the good that accrued over 45 minutes of play for four points? Why take the risk when you might score by running it anyway?
I'm not saying that I agree with the play-calling. However, reasonable minds can disagree. I think the call to run the ball was reasonable. (I don't know the percentage difference between running and passing in the chance to score a touchdown from the 3; however, that percentage difference may not have been worth it when the game is in hand.
Posted on 9/20/10 at 9:43 am to bravebyrd
My observations:
We are going to waste a championship calibur defense with terrible offensive play calling.
Other colleges are starting Freshmen QBs who look 10x better than our Junior whos got 17 starts.
Miles believes a QB controversy will doom LSU because then he will have to make a decision, so hes decided the runoriented play calling will be the glue to keep offense together so the weels dont fall off. Miles cant screw up if he doesnt have to make a decision.
Miles/Crowton's offensive philosophy: "If we cant throw it, we wont".
I have never seen an offense designed to minimize a QBs exposure as much as this. Its sad.
LSU passing: ranked 115th out of 120.
What exactly are you telling recruits? I know what florida and bama are telling them....
Wait until we play a real defense that stops the run. we will get shut out.
okay... i think ive vented enough for now.
We are going to waste a championship calibur defense with terrible offensive play calling.
Other colleges are starting Freshmen QBs who look 10x better than our Junior whos got 17 starts.
Miles believes a QB controversy will doom LSU because then he will have to make a decision, so hes decided the runoriented play calling will be the glue to keep offense together so the weels dont fall off. Miles cant screw up if he doesnt have to make a decision.
Miles/Crowton's offensive philosophy: "If we cant throw it, we wont".
I have never seen an offense designed to minimize a QBs exposure as much as this. Its sad.
LSU passing: ranked 115th out of 120.
What exactly are you telling recruits? I know what florida and bama are telling them.... Wait until we play a real defense that stops the run. we will get shut out.
okay... i think ive vented enough for now.
Posted on 9/20/10 at 10:56 am to Chicken
quote:
I wish the coaches would get the 2008 season out their heads and just open the damn thing up.
+1
I am not a football guru, but if I, while drinking beer at a look-in, can tell what play we are likely to run, I am sure that the opposing D coordinators can as well.
Like it or not, we have 2 QBs, each with a different set of skills...we need to use them both and in a way that we do not telegraph what's coming...or it will be a long season.
Posted on 9/20/10 at 11:05 am to Roaad
quote:
He was accurate on all of his throws.
too bad all were of the 3 yard slant variety. when will we see him throw a deep out or post or deep comeback. anyone can look accurate when they are throwing a ball that travels 3 yards thru the air
This post was edited on 9/20/10 at 11:34 am
Posted on 9/20/10 at 11:33 am to TigaB8a
quote:
If we loose both then miles is gone.
Of all the stupid things written in this thread I think this one is the dumbest. Amazing that anyone actually thinks Les is gone if his only losses are to Alabama and Florida.
Posted on 9/20/10 at 11:48 am to just me
quote:
Jefferson is developing in the sense that he is becoming a better QB. The UNC and the MSU game demonstrate that he is becoming a better QB. Sure, he made five mistakes in the UNC game, but it was the first game of the year, and he played well.
how is completing 12 passes for a measily 79 yards developing and becoming a better QB? isn't the role of a developed QB to move the ball down the field and get the ball to your playmakers with opportunnity to succed? throwing dump offs to safety valave WR does not prove development or make you have a great game.
quote:
In the MSU game, Jefferson performed excellently the tasks he was called upon to perform. Was it perfect? No. It is not realistic to expect perfection. (Did Russell Shepard play perfectly? No, and his imperfections contributed to the negative discussions about Jefferson.) Jefferson ran well for a QB, and he threw well
once aqain completing 10 passes for 97 yards is not playing excellent or proving development. he's in essentially his 20th game as a starting college QB and still can't make a decesive read. an excellent game by a QB is getting the ball to your playmakers with opportunnities to succed. outside of the one drop that Sheppard had on a deep throw, give me another example of Jefferson throwing the ball downfield that would have given his playmakers an opportunnity to make a big play.
quote:
The game was in hand. Jefferson had played a great game with zero turnovers.
so because a QB has 0 turnovers that constitutes as a great game? you keep saying Jefferson had a great game, but it was far from that. yes having no turnovers is a great STAT to have, but when the rest of the game you played was less than ideal, how can you say it was great. he finally had a good run in the option package, but that had more to do with a breakdown in MSU defense than the individual effeort of Jefferson. you cannot win in the SEC with a QB who continues to throw for less than 100 yards.
WVU will crowd the line and dare Jefferson to beat them this week. they will have the best Defense LSU has seen to date. we'll see how all those 6 yard pass completions work this week.
Posted on 9/20/10 at 12:01 pm to truck man
How many times did Jefferson check down for the easy throw in this game?
Posted on 9/20/10 at 12:10 pm to kballa6
quote:
There are no intermediate (15-20 yds) plays being called. Jefferson is not a very accurate thrower, but all the blame cannot be put on him.
Did you even listen to what he said? I'd have to agree, JJ isn't overly accurate. If you have a sort of blah accurate QB, you know what type of passing plays you DON'T call? I'll give you a hint.....it's in your post.
Posted on 9/20/10 at 12:10 pm to hashtag
I'm with Chicken and a lot of other people. Frankly, I don't know what's more disturbing: (1) Crowton/Miles' extremely conservative play-calling or (2) that both Crowton/Miles seem to be fine with it and repeat it game after game (and season after season) despite truly pathetic results (91st in offense, with our talent, what the h???). Time to unleash JJ/our receivers and throw the ball, particularly with downfield throws over 10 yards. Running the ball over 70% (like against M State) of the time is not balance, and it's also not a good idea when your running game is mediocre at best.
Posted on 9/20/10 at 12:23 pm to truck man
quote:12 passes for 79 yards?
how is completing 12 passes for a measily 79 yards developing and becoming a better QB?
quote:If you are correct, how did Jefferson not do that against State? How many punts or turnovers did LSU have? In any event, the role of the QB is to perform as the QB is asked to perform. Jefferson did that well.
isn't the role of a developed QB to move the ball down the field and get the ball to your playmakers with opportunnity to succed?
quote:How many opportunities did Jefferson have to throw? Sixteen. He completed over 60% of his passes. More importantly, Jefferson put his team in scoring position on every possession except for one.
once aqain completing 10 passes for 97 yards is not playing excellent or proving development. he's in essentially his 20th game as a starting college QB and still can't make a decesive read. an excellent game by a QB is getting the ball to your playmakers with opportunnities to succed.
quote:Outside of the one drop that Shepard had on a deep throw, give me another example of when Jefferson was asked to throw the ball downfield.
outside of the one drop that Sheppard had on a deep throw, give me another example of Jefferson throwing the ball downfield that would have given his playmakers an opportunnity to make a big play.
quote:Look at the plays Jefferson was asked to execute and consider how he executed them. He did a great job.
so because a QB has 0 turnovers that constitutes as a great game? you keep saying Jefferson had a great game, but it was far from that. yes having no turnovers is a great STAT to have, but when the rest of the game you played was less than ideal, how can you say it was great.
quote:So you're saying that on an option, he read the defense and took advantage of its breakdown. Isn't that what he is supposed to do on an option?
he finally had a good run in the option package, but that had more to do with a breakdown in MSU defense than the individual effeort of Jefferson. you cannot win in the SEC with a QB who continues to throw for less than 100 yards.
quote:Except that he has won in the SEC throwing for less than 100 yards. Twice. And he hasn't lost yet.
you cannot win in the SEC with a QB who continues to throw for less than 100 yards.
quote:The same WVU that got taken to OT by Marshall? The same WVU team that gave up a 100 yard rushing game to a Marshall player?
WVU will crowd the line and dare Jefferson to beat them this week. they will have the best Defense LSU has seen to date. we'll see how all those 6 yard pass completions work this week.
Posted on 9/20/10 at 12:34 pm to oak
quote:
Time to unleash JJ/
We tried that...3 for 12 was the result
Posted on 9/20/10 at 12:36 pm to just me
I got a kick out of this one...
what was our average starting field position, like their 46 yard line? damn near FG territory.
Its more like our defense and special teams put our team in scoring postion, and Jefferson didnt do anything to screw it up this time.
quote:
More importantly, Jefferson put his team in scoring position on every possession except for one.
what was our average starting field position, like their 46 yard line? damn near FG territory.
Its more like our defense and special teams put our team in scoring postion, and Jefferson didnt do anything to screw it up this time.
This post was edited on 9/20/10 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 9/20/10 at 1:04 pm to BobBoucher
quote:Only two of Jefferson's drives started in field goal range. One of them was a field goal; the other resulted in a touchdown.
what was our average starting field position, like their 46 yard line? damn near FG territory.
First Drive:
Start: LSU 42 [NOT FIELD GOAL RANGE]
Finish: MSST 26
Drive: 32 yards
Second Drive:
Start: LSU 30 [NOT FIELD GOAL RANGE]
Finish: MSST 15
Drive: 55 yards
Third Drive:
Start: LSU 48 [NOT FIELD GOAL RANGE]
Finish: MSST 34
Drive: 18 yards
Fourth Drive:
Start: MSST 42 [NOT FIELD GOAL RANGE]
Finish: MSST 20
Drive: 22 yards
Fifth Drive:
Start: LSU 40 [NOT FIELD GOAL RANGE]
Finish: TOUCHDOWN
Difference: 60 yards
Sixth Drive:
Start: MSST 28 [FIELD GOAL RANGE]
Finish: TOUCHDOWN
Difference: 28 yards
Seventh Drive:
Start: MSST 10 [FIELD GOAL RANGE]
Finish: MSST 4
Difference: 6 yards
Eighth Drive:
Start: LSU 45 [NOT FIELD GOAL RANGE]
Finish: MSST 42
Difference: 13 yards [NO SCORE]
Posted on 9/20/10 at 1:16 pm to just me
quote:
Only two of Jefferson's drives started in field goal range. One of them was a field goal; the other resulted in a touchdown
thanks for the details. LSU average staring field position was MSST's 47 yard line.
a mere 15 yards from FG range? That explains all the FGs. Like i said. Our D and special teams earned this win.
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