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re: Good coaches? Good athletes?
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:07 am to karralum
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:07 am to karralum
Please JJ sucked, and Miles was a idiot for sticking with him. There is a reason he lasted all of two days in a NFL camp. Lee actually made a team. That in itself confirms what Miles knows about judging QB talent and how to develope it. He can recruit and is a father figure, that is about as far as it goes for him. If he does not find the offensive equivalent of John Chavis LSU is going to slide into mediocrity. I don't care how many 4 or 5 stars you have you can't win championships on talent alone.
5
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:08 am to Topwater Trout
Good players but never a good QB! 
Pig headed coach. If something is working he says lets try something else! 
Pig headed coach. If something is working he says lets try something else! This post was edited on 1/11/13 at 9:10 am
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:08 am to karralum
Just as I thought. You are just another clown here incapable of giving Miles any credit for what he has done while blaming him for every loss.
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:12 am to JustSmokin
Really what are u smoking? 
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:12 am to karralum
quote:
There always seems to be a debate as to whether we believe Miles is a great coach or not. .......IMO I think he's just benefitting from having great athletes. It appears that the players seems to go through a regression the longer they stay at LSU. From the quarterback position to even the coveted DL position and everything in between it just seems as though the players are hitting their peaks early
I could go back and point out all the lower ranked recruits the staff has brought in and how they developed, but I'll just address the players you perceive to hit peaks early and regress.
Do you believe that the head coach of every program is a hands on developer of every athlete that comes through the program? Are you saying that the position coaches do nothing here and everything falls on the head coach's shoulder?
quote:
I know some will quickly point out that Les has guided us to two NC games, but talent wise who had better talent than LSU? We've had highly recruited qb's only to perform subpar thus far, top wr's only to see them perform below their peak performance and our linemen seems to just take plays off at crucial times
There's a handful of schools that have recruited as well or better than LSU over the last few years, most of those are in the SEC.
So if you're argument is that Miles doesn't develop talent and in fact that talent regresses under him, how is LSU better talent wise than anyone else?
If he doesn't develop talent and he's a bad game day coach, then how does he win here? Surely a coach with both of those traits would lose the majority of games.
This post was edited on 1/11/13 at 9:15 am
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:15 am to TigerFanNKaty
quote:
Please JJ sucked, and Miles was a idiot for sticking with him. There is a reason he lasted all of two days in a NFL camp. Lee actually made a team. That in itself confirms what Miles knows about judging QB talent and how to develope it. He can recruit and is a father figure, that is about as far as it goes for him. If he does not find the offensive equivalent of John Chavis LSU is going to slide into mediocrity. I don't care how many 4 or 5 stars you have you can't win championships on talent alone.
great post.Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:16 am to EarthwormJim
quote:
Are you saying that the position coaches do nothing here and everything falls on the head coach's shoulder?
He can hire and fire right?
quote:
how is LSU better talent wise than anyone else?
How many schools have had more players get drafted in last 5 years than LSU? Most on here contend he doesn't utilize the talent at hand.
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:20 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
He can hire and fire right?
Yet this thread was about Miles ability to develop talent. You think our position coaches are subpar?
quote:
How many schools have had more players get drafted in last 5 years than LSU? Most on here contend he doesn't utilize the talent at hand.
That's not what this thread contends. The OP states talent regresses under Miles. If that is the case how are so many people getting drafted and how is LSU still more talented than everyone else?
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:22 am to EarthwormJim
quote:
You think our position coaches are subpar?
On the offensive side of the ball I do.
quote:
If that is the case how are so many people getting drafted and how is LSU still more talented than everyone else?
I think developing and utilizing talent go hand in hand.
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:25 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
On the offensive side of the ball I do.
Frank Wilson?
Steve Kragthorpe?
Adam Henry?
All subpar coaches?
quote:
I think developing and utilizing talent go hand in hand
So if talent isn't being developed, how is LSU still more talented than everyone else?
Surely coaches that develop talent would lead to a more talented team?
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:29 am to EarthwormJim
quote:
Frank Wilson?
Steve Kragthorpe?
Adam Henry?
All subpar coaches?
We have a sub par offense don't we?
quote:
So if talent isn't being developed, how is LSU still more talented than everyone else?
Defensive side of the ball our talent is developed. I would think defense is being drafted by the NFL at a 3:1 rate over offensive players.
ETA: Just checked and my ratio was wrong
it is almost evenThis post was edited on 1/11/13 at 9:34 am
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:32 am to TigerFanNKaty
quote:
re: Good coaches? Good athletes? (Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:07 a.m. to karralum) Please JJ sucked, and Miles was a idiot for sticking with him. There is a reason he lasted all of two days in a NFL camp. Lee actually made a team. That in itself confirms what Miles knows about judging QB talent and how to develope it. He can recruit and is a father figure, that is about as far as it goes for him. If he does not find the offensive equivalent of John Chavis LSU is going to slide into mediocrity. I don't care how many 4 or 5 stars you have you can't win championships on talent alone.
Umm, Lee was cut so he didn't actually make THE TEAM. Look not trying to make this another jj vs lee thing that horse has been beaten enough already, but you've proved my point suggesting what does Miles know about developing talent.
Also RAW talent is usually what most of the newcomers are playing off of, meaning that's their peak since their RAW talent is not developed after their early years.....
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:32 am to BabyTac
quote:Now this I disagree with in part. I think Les Miles gets credit for his recruiting prowess, and deserves accolades for that one thing. And it is Les Miles who has that arguably stellar record of 80+ wins at LSU during his tenure. Not every coach could pull that off, even with the Tigers. He's also the one who (finally) hired Chavis as his DC and lets Chief do his job without interference. He's won the MNC and the SEC while at LSU, and has mostly kept our Tigers in the hunt. Credit due.
Les Miles can do nothing on his own, and for that reason alone he doesn't deserve the recognition or money that he gets.
Where he deserves demerits, IMO, is in his failure to see and act on glaring problems - like the offense these last 5 years, like QB under-performance (JJ, JL; now Mett somewhat); his penchant for completely predictable offenses and refusal to do the obvious to correct this (again a real OC needed); and his reversal in (not) winning the more recent big bowl games. These demerits can be corrected, but sooner, rather than later.
And again IMO, Coach Miles has got to want to.
This post was edited on 1/11/13 at 9:33 am
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:40 am to EarthwormJim
quote:
That's not what this thread contends. The OP states talent regresses under Miles. If that is the case how are so many people getting drafted and how is LSU still more talented than everyone else?
The title of the thread is.
GOOD COACHES OR GOOD ATHLETES
I said In My Opinion I think Miles just benefits for having good athletes and I explained why. I also explained how can you have a freshman MVP bowl game qb regress so far by the time he's in his last year. Which may attest to why you have ALOT of underclass men leaving before their last year.
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:42 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
We have a sub par offense don't we?
Sure, but are you blaming our position coaches underdeveloping talent for that?
quote:
Defensive side of the ball our talent is developed. I would think defense is being drafted by the NFL at a 3:1 rate over offensive players.
ETA: Just checked and my ratio was wrong it is almost even
Yeah about even, but even if defensive players are being developed that's not what the OP alleges. He said every position under Miles has regressed.
My argument isn't that offensive players are being used correctly, everyone knows the offense needs to improve.
My argument is that in this thread you can't have it both ways. If talent regresses under Miles then we clearly aren't the most talented team and we are winning games based on his coaching ability.
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:46 am to karralum
quote:
quarterback position to even the coveted DL position
Please, name these players.
Before you say Lee or JJ.they were both better in 2011 than they were in 2008. There is absolutely no way you can spin that.
Besides what are you going to do? Blame miles for getting good athletes on campus? I thought that's the whole point?
This post was edited on 1/11/13 at 9:49 am
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:46 am to EarthwormJim
quote:
Sure, but are you blaming our position coaches underdeveloping talent for that?
I think it is more of a scheme issue than talent development.
quote:
If talent regresses under Miles then we clearly aren't the most talented team and we are winning games based on his coaching ability.
Some players never get better, or noticeably better. Whether its coaching, player motivation, not living up to the hype, etc IDK
quote:
He said every position under Miles has regressed.
Needless to say I don't agree
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:48 am to karralum
quote:
I said In My Opinion I think Miles just benefits for having good athletes and I explained why. I also explained how can you have a freshman MVP bowl game qb regress so far by the time he's in his last year. Which may attest to why you have ALOT of underclass men leaving before their last year.
So he gets good athletes, those athletes regress under him, yet those same athletes win a ton of games here and are ready to go to the NFL after 3 or 4 years. So you're saying that those same athletes would all be first round picks straight out of high school.
This post was edited on 1/11/13 at 9:49 am
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:51 am to JustSmokin
quote:
Just as I thought. You are just another clown here incapable of giving Miles any credit for what he has done while blaming him for every loss.
Wrong, I do enjoy the way the mad hatter goes about getting his contract extensions.......... Michigan wants me. $$$$cha-Ching
Arkansas is showing interest $$$cha-Ching I think the Eagles want me to interview for their job
Posted on 1/11/13 at 9:51 am to EarthwormJim
That's exactly what fans think. Every player to Grace LSU is nfl ready from day 1. They are all sec all American players until miles gets a hold of them.
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