re: Every knowledgeable basketball person you hear or read from

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chinhoyang

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you still have Johnny jones dick in your mouth. I wouldn’t speak to much

Not every coach has instant success.

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Tigersjump has a point.

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Pointed head.

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There is plenty of documentation that LSU’s administrators gave him every chance to come forward.

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It's the truth... I love Wade but the reason he was fired wasn't because he was cheating it was because he lied to and didn't cooperate with administration.... People love mentioning how Bill Self was retained on here but he was retained because he fully cooperated with Kansas.. while Wade didn't cooperate with LSU..

I also do think that the situation might be different if the football stuff wasn't going on.. tRant baws are incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of the administration. Doesn't mean I agree with what Tate/Woody did, it just means I can see their perspective on the situation. If you lied to your boss you'd probably get fired too. You can read Wade's contract for yourself. It says clearly in the contract you're required to fully comply with internal and external investigations which Wade didn't.

WW LSU Contract

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It says clearly in the contract you're required to fully comply with internal and external investigations which Wade didn't.

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Someone will be on here shortly to say you don’t know what you’re talking about and Wade was fired because Woody didn’t like him.

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Ain’t no way McMahon can have instant success with the God awful situation he was forced into. Nobody could.

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Missouri fired their HC, Cuonzo Martin, after the 2021-2022 season in which he went 12-21 (5-13). Dennis Gates was hired from Cleveland St. Gates faced building a roster that had only 2 scholarship players returning. (Note: McMahon had 3). In doing so, he signed one (1) HS player...who was ranked as the 70th best prospect. He then brought in 9 transfers. 3 were players from Cleveland St. (Gates's former school). One was from UW-Milwaukee; One was from Missouri St; One was from Northern Iowa. One was from Clemson; Two were from the JUCO ranks. For what it is worth, that Missouri transfer group was ranked at the 8th best transfer class. LSU's was ranked as the 11th.

Like Gates, McMahon brought 3 players with him from his former school. One being the OVC POY (KJ Williams). However, unlike Gates, despite being shrouded under a "cloud of negativity" McMahon signed what was ranked as the 17th best HS recruiting class in country. Combined, McMahon's signing class (transfers + HS signees) was ranked 17th overall. Not in the SEC of course, but in the country. Missouri's rank....39.

So if we are keeping score at this point Gates and Missouri went into last season with FEWER returning players than LSU/McMahon, less HS signees and a significantly lower ranked HS signing class, and a transfer class that was ranked comparably to LSUs (8 v 11).

Taking the names off the jerseys, along with the P&G glasses, who seemed to have a worse situation going into the season? It's not like as part of the the pending investigation LSU was forced to only play with 4 players instead of 5 or start the game spotting the opponent 10 points. They were allowed to put 5 guys on the court and start from 0-0.

The ultimate outcomes of last season

Missouri: 25-10 (11-7). 7th seed in NCAA Tournament. Reached the second round

LSU: 14-19 (2-16)

So nobody could have had instant success at LSU?

That's not to say McMahon won't prove to be a better HC than Gates over time (Missouri is currently 8-10 (0-5)). But it's ridiculous to give McMahon a free pass for last season and say "no one could have done better". The reality is he did an awful job.

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So was the goal to be really good last year while sucking this year?

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I acknowledge that Missouri is struggling badly this season and McMahon may ultimately prove to be the more successful HC. The point of the discussion, which you choose to ignore, was in response to claims that "Nobody could have done better" than McMahon did last year given the circumstances he faced. I'm simply pointing out a HC that had to deal with comparable circumstance in terms of the lack of returning players and rebuilding a roster who performed SIGNIFICANTLY better than McMahon did last year. That should invalidate this absurd line of thinking that last season should have no bearing on the judgment of McMahon at all. I'm not saying last season is the ONLY thing upon which McMahon should ultimately be judged. But its ridiculous to suggest it shouldn't be part of the equation.

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One of those 2 returning players was Kobe Brown, a 1st rd draft pick in the NBA following the season.

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Great. And LSU had a player who averaged more PPG and rebounds than Brown did last season (KJ Williams). Regardless of how each became a part of the roster (via returning or transfer) they were both on the rosters of their teams last season. So, at worst, McMahon had a guy to equal (actually exceed) Brown's production. What's the excuse for the lack of production from the rest of LSU's players relative that that of Missouri's?

McMahon did a terrible job last season. That doesn't mean he can't improve. That doesn't mean he can't become a great HC at LSU. But it doesn't mean he should get a pass for it either when there are other HCs who faced similar challenges upon taking the job in terms of a lack of players on the roster and performed much, much better. The oft-repeated narrative that "this is year 1" of the evaluation is stupid. It's year 2.

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Great. And LSU had a player who averaged more PPG and rebounds than Brown did last season (KJ Williams). Regardless of how each became a part of the roster (via returning or transfer) they were both on the rosters of their teams last season.

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Sure, let's ignore the fact that an NBA draft pick was on the roster with zero effort, while McMahon brought KJ Williams. Did the Missouri coach not bring along some talent?

Further, let's ignore that the 3 at LSU were firmly in the portal and McMahon had to recruit them back. Missouri got Kobe Brown. McMahon got Adam Miller. Swap those two and last year's team is a ton better. And this year's team looks about the same.

Oh, and I guess I missed the NOA Missouri got.

So once again, the comparison is apples to oranges, and you are taking one year of a decent record and ignoring the rest.

If LSU opened this year with 5 straight losses including 3 at home to Florida, Georgia, and SC McMahon's head would be on a pike.

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Man, it's funny how we all can watch the same coach and have so many different opinions

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My issues with him have always been related to his coaching ability in-game. He's proven to be a good enough recruiter, and I haven't fully formulated an opinion on player development. Seems like Reed and Ward have gotten better than last year, but not enough to make me believe in him as a good player development coach.

My issues with him in game aren't entirely based on his Xs and Os ability.. it seems like when we do run sets they work well enough. Adam Miller got buku open looks last year. Seems like when we actually run sets and pass the ball we can get shooters like Ward open.

My issues lie in rotations and in game adjusments. Seems like McMahon is content with forcing his scheme on his players rather than adjusting his scheme to fit his players. I feel like we would have much more success if players like Dean, Fountain, and Collins were allowed more freedom and we ran more sets for them offensively. Even last year, McMahon insisted on playing the same players even when there were seemingly better options on the bench (Ward and Phillips not playing for example).

This year it can be seen with Baker taking a lot of minutes while Collins, Fountain, and Dean ride the bench.(I know Collins has been hurt, but even when he was healthy he rode the pine). I firmly believe that McMahon bases his rotations on practice habits and favoritism rather than ideal matchups on a game to game basis. Even when a player has played terribly like Baker, they still get a shite ton of minutes.

Lack of in game adjustments can be seen in our most recent loss against aTm. Williams was outplaying Cook on both sides of the court yet he was subbed out in crucial moments for Cook who was cold. No emphasis on crashing the glass on both ends of the court even though aTm was sending 3-4 to rebound. Seeing our players leak out while Dean was getting abused in the paint was pissing me off.


tl;dr he's a good enough recruiter but his lack of in game adjustments and questionable rotations will hold this team back

Yeah, look at what Will Wade has done in his first season at McNeese.