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Message
re: Chris Landry free podcast state of LSU's program
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:13 am to Fabius
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:13 am to Fabius
quote:
Basically, he laid out a number of issues that are consistent with what many have been saying for years.
In football circles, Les Miles teams have never been considered the most prepared or tecnhically sound.
Miles has won with superior talent. Talent development is an issue. LSU has put a lot of players in the NFL because it has recruited superior talent, but LSU players are not well developed when they get to the next level.
Recruiting has to be anticipatory. College teams lose players to graduation or the NFL, so that has to be anticipated when making recruiting decisions. Problem for LSU is recruiting has slipped and LSU hasn't been able to fill the gaps.
If you have talent gaps, scheme around them. Miles and Chavis can't do that, so the wheels come off quickly when the talent drops.
NEVER put your program in a position where you have two QBs as inexperienced as LSU does this year.
The Fulmer comparison was a warning. Fulmer and Chief won with superior talent. However, as soon as recruiting slipped, things went downhill quickly, and Tenn program has been a dumpster fire since then. If LSU doesn't "nip this in the bud" then LSU program could suffer for years. Did not say fire Miles, but said if Miles doesn't turn things around then it could be ugly for a while.
Consistent time management problems that go uncorrected is a sign of bigger problems.
This is pretty much spot on with what I, and any objective fan that cares about the program, sees. The bolded part stuck out to me and it's something a lot of people don't consider. People complaining about LSU being young are not seeing the bigger picture. You have to plan years in advance to where in recruiting you address potential issues. Ten years into a program you should not have large gaps in talent. It's just bad program management.
1
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:15 am to IowaTigerHawk
quote:
Yes, Miles has recruited well if the only criteria you measure by is how many stars the players receive on Rivals or 247
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:24 am to kaaj24
quote:
4) Les Miles is a great coach. We're going through growing pains with new QBs. I'm disappointed we don't have a capable, experienced QB that should be starting now but it was a miss by Les and coaches in recruiting several years in the making. 5) This year is rough, we'll be on the 10 win train next season. Hang in there.
Just because you believe that doesn't make either true.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:25 am to 1999
quote:
highly regarded as well and they haven't done shite for us.
quote:
2011
What?
quote:
2012 and 2013
I can't agree with you there yet either.
Do you really think that we don't have talent here?
If your argument is we aren't filling needs, I can go with that. But nobody can simply expect the amount of players leaving early that we have had. I'm not saying that's the only reason for our struggles, Les shoulders plenty of blame.
But the list of complaints on the guy gets pretty ridiculous.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:29 am to CRAZY 4 LSU
quote:
People complaining about LSU being young are not seeing the bigger picture. You have to plan years in advance to where in recruiting you address potential issues. Ten years into a program you should not have large gaps in talent. It's just bad program management.
Sure, if you are a normal team with normal losses. But when you lead the nation in this category, by a fair margin, you can plan all you want but you won't keep up losing that kind of upper classmen.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:30 am to nm1230
Chris used to show up pretty often on some afternoon radio show a few years back. I was never a consistent listener but I don't recall his ever being any thing but negative to LSU.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:36 am to noonan
quote:
Sure, if you are a normal team with normal losses. But when you lead the nation in this category, by a fair margin, you can plan all you want but you won't keep up losing that kind of upper classmen.
My problem with this is that's what you have prided yourself on. The coaches would talk about sending players to the NFL and getting those three year guys. And you have to foster a culture where players aren't as likely to leave at their first chance. We aren't some anomaly, it's a culture problem.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:37 am to 1999
quote:
lol jury is still out on 2014 class. they have played all of 6 games.
Yet the jury is in on tdecline????
Do you not even remember 2008? We had to bring DBU back after 2006. We had to bring the run game back after 2009.
I can look at Harris, and Dupre, and Diarse, and Quinn, and see the future of the pass game very strong. After the transition of the new scheme, I can see the OL better.
Fournette looks good on what little touches he gets, Williams looks as steong as he did in high school, we have the #1 (who is pretty much a freak athlete RB), a top 10 RB who has 4.4 speed, and a top 15 RB (who is fifth all time in rushing TDs in the country) coming in.
Jamal Adams is looking good, Robinson and White will be juniors next year, we have the #1 CB in the country coming in next year. Guys like Ed Paris and Battle, who haven't even seen the field much, are here. Dwayne Thomas will be back next year. The secondary looks great.
Clifton Garrett with Beckwith gives you two athletic specimens at the MLB spot which will improve our run defense. Valentine will be playing, and Godchaux will have a year of experience. IMO, Bain and Trey L will show THIS YEAR, that they are difference makers.
Sorry, I see a lot of improvement coming. I don't see gloom and doom, end is near bullcrap. Tell me you knew MSU would look like this in two years? Tell me, two years ago, you knew Ole Miss would beat Alabama. Tell me three years ago, with Malzahn still as the OC, that Auburn would be this good?
We knew we were weak up the middle before the season, we knew we would have major problems with run game. Seriously, go back and look up threads were people didn't even believe we'd throw for 2000 pass yards. When I said 2400 pass yards, people thought that was a joke, and that looks more likely now. The run game can be fixed in a year like it did from 2009 to 2010.
2009
1596 yards 15 TDs (3.67 ypc)
2010
2438 yards 29 TDs (4.53 ypc)
Look at the pass game from 2005-2006 or 2012-2013? Let's not dwell only what transpired with zero QB coaching, let's instead look at what Cam can do for Harris and the WRs.
This post was edited on 10/11/14 at 11:20 am
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:40 am to jwill37
quote:
but a lot of that can be attributed to Saban starting the trend of LA players staying home
sorry to bust your bubble but dinardo started that trend.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:40 am to Datbayoubengal
quote:
After the transition of the new scheme, I can see the OL better.
What makes you believe the scheme will change after 10 years of the same? We've been through this song and dance multiple times.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:42 am to CRAZY 4 LSU
quote:
My problem with this is that's what you have prided yourself on.
It's a recruiting tool for sure. But it's not like that is Miles plan. Nobody can plan for that many early departures. You just try to keep up.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 10:44 am to Lakeboy7
quote:
Lots of stars but really did not address our most immediate needs as well as it could, see the post above about anticipation in recruiting.
We did address it. Valentine, Godchaux, Trey L, Teuhema and Clark are all DL recruits. We lost two NFL WRs and replaced them with the #1 WR and top 10 WR. We lost an NFL QB, and replaced him with the #3 dual threat in the country with as strong of an arm, and actual mobility. We lost a second round MLB (2 years ago) and are now replacing him finally, with a highly rated LB, and a 5 star ILB. We replaced Loston with the #2 safety in the country, and we have a bevy of guys waiting in the wings.
Sorry, I don't see what you see. There is no decline, that's just more modern day overreaction at everything that happens.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 11:05 am to Datbayoubengal
quote:
We did address it. Valentine, Godchaux, Trey L, Teuhema and Clark are all DL recruits.
what were the D line classes of 11,12,13? How are they contributing and being developed? Go back and look closer.
quote:Agree, but skill position players can't be successful without competence in the trenches and at QB.
We lost two NFL WRs and replaced them with the #1 WR and top 10 WR
quote:Since Miles has been here the success at QB was recruited and developed by Saban/jimbo and a JUCO transfer recruited and at least partially developed by Richt. You should never have to replace an NFL qb with a true freshman no matter how highly he's ranked. And on top of that you are trying to force him to play in a scheme totally foreign to what he's accustomed to. Not a recipe for success.
We lost an NFL QB, and replaced him with the #3 dual threat in the country with as strong of an arm, and actual mobility.
quote:Are you serious with this shite?
We lost a second round MLB (2 years ago) and are now replacing him finally, with a highly rated LB, and a 5 star ILB.
quote:Agree but again how successful are Db's going to be with really bad D-line and linebacker play.
We replaced Loston with the #2 safety in the country, and we have a bevy of guys waiting in the wings.
Les has had highly ranked classes but they aren't addressing needs as they should.
This post was edited on 10/11/14 at 11:06 am
Posted on 10/11/14 at 11:31 am to Datbayoubengal
They're not on campus yet. Anything can happen between now and next season what you see as verbal commits may not end up signing.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 12:03 pm to nm1230
quote:
what were the D line classes of 11,12,13? How are they contributing and being developed? Go back and look closer.
What does this have to do with his response to my question? I said all we have to do is look at 2014 recruiting and see we aren't in a decline, he said, "lots of stars, but didn't meet our needs". I literally just explained that we got 5 DL players this cycle. We got 4 last cycle. Can we give this guys until their third year before we say they are garbage? Geez the right now generation is fricking ridiculous!
quote:
Agree, but skill position players can't be successful without competence in the trenches and at QB.
2012, Chris Faulk, injured game one. Alex Hurst, injured against UF. Josh Williford, injured against UF. We lost 3 starting lineman before the seventh game. We were pretty much meh in the run game. We started a true sophomore, a true freshman, and redshirt freshman, the rest of the year. The offense opened up, we finally utilized our best RB, and wow the passing game. We pretty much sucked at passing before the bye, and then almost blew up after the bye.
After 3 straight games of less than 49% completion and less than 159 yards passing and 1 TD to 2 Int, we go 298, 273, 282, and 217 the next 4 weeks with 4 TDs to 2 ints.
quote:
Since Miles has been here the success at QB was recruited and developed by Saban/jimbo and a JUCO transfer recruited and at least partially developed by Richt.
Are you saying Cam can't develop QBs? Is this really the route you want to take?
quote:See Christian Hackenberg 2013, Jared Goff 2013, Deshaun Watson 2014, See UGA with Matthew Stafford. It's not ideal. but when you are better than the veterans, then what are you supposed to do?
You should never have to replace an NFL qb with a true freshman no matter how highly he's ranked.
quote:
Are you serious with this shite?
Yes moron. We replaced Minter by getting Beckwith. He was the #3 OLB in the country. We then went and got Garrett the next year. The #2 OLB in the country, and a 5 star. Both came in at 6'2 and 225 and 230 respectively.
quote:
Agree but again how successful are Db's going to be with really bad D-line and linebacker play.
Les has had highly ranked classes but they aren't addressing needs as they should.
DL play will pick up when these guys get experience. It's like you mofos have been watching college football since last year. Not everybody is ready their first or second years. It takes time to mature and learn technique. We have been blessed for a long time with incredible line play, and veterans in the DL trenches. We have 9 DL recruits just in 2013 and 2014 alone. Next year, you will see those classes bare fruit. LB class will definitely have go step up, but with Beckwith finally getting to play the majority of games, I see it turning around.
He has been addressing needs. In 2012 we had Randall, Rivers, Mett, and Bolden. In 2013, Mett, Rivers, Bolden, Jennings, Rettig. We had 4 QBs on roster this spring, all with at least two years of eligibility remaining, two split. He stocked the shelf with DL for the past two years, but yes he did mess up in 2012. I gladly give you that one. He got a boat load of LBs in 2012, and picked up 2 in 2013. He got another in the 2014 class. IMO we need two LBs this year, and I believe McGinnis and Wallace are the guys we need to press hard for.
Other than DL for 2012, we have done a pretty good job of hitting out needs.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 12:05 pm to LSUFAN2
quote:
They're not on campus yet. Anything can happen between now and next season what you see as verbal commits may not end up signing.
All these guys are on campus, and nearly all have played.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 12:56 pm to Datbayoubengal
quote:
I said all we have to do is look at 2014 recruiting and see we aren't in a decline
That's the whole point. Looking at one class and ignoring gaps and poor planning is what causes a decline.
quote:
2012, Chris Faulk, injured game one. Alex Hurst, injured against UF. Josh Williford, injured against UF. We lost 3 starting lineman before the seventh game. We were pretty much meh in the run game. We started a true sophomore, a true freshman, and redshirt freshman, the rest of the year. The offense opened up, we finally utilized our best RB, and wow the passing game. We pretty much sucked at passing before the bye, and then almost blew up after the bye.
After 3 straight games of less than 49% completion and less than 159 yards passing and 1 TD to 2 Int, we go 298, 273, 282, and 217 the next 4 weeks with 4 TDs to 2 ints.
What the frick are you talking about? Our O-line sucks right now and our QB play sucks right now. Are you going to argue that? A couple of WR recruits with stars on rivals aren't going to change that.
quote:
Are you saying Cam can't develop QBs? Is this really the route you want to take?
I'm saying Miles can't seem to figure out how to recruit and develop quality QBs. We'll see what Cam can do moving forward but with what he's done in developing these two guys is not impressive. And the fact that they are all we have is a bigger issue.
quote:
See Christian Hackenberg 2013, Jared Goff 2013, Deshaun Watson 2014, See UGA with Matthew Stafford. It's not ideal. but when you are better than the veterans, then what are you supposed to do?
Nice try. Tell me more about how it's working.
quote:
Yes moron. We replaced Minter by getting Beckwith. He was the #3 OLB in the country. We then went and got Garrett the next year. The #2 OLB in the country, and a 5 star. Both came in at 6'2 and 225 and 230 respectively
So you think it should take 2 years to have a MLB that is more effective than Welter. At LSU? You think this is a good example of competent recruiting and player development? The shite show we've watched at that position? Thanks for dropping "moron" on me.
quote:
DL play will pick up when these guys get experience. It's like you mofos have been watching college football since last year. Not everybody is ready their first or second years. It takes time to mature and learn technique. We have been blessed for a long time with incredible line play, and veterans in the DL trenches. We have 9 DL recruits just in 2013 and 2014 alone. Next year, you will see those classes bare fruit. LB class will definitely have go step up, but with Beckwith finally getting to play the majority of games, I see it turning around.
You admit the 2012 class was a failure but you think that is par for the course and we should just deal with it? If we keep saying "oh we just missed at that position in such and such recruiting class" we will constantly be "rebuilding" on one side of the ball.
quote:
He has been addressing needs. In 2012 we had Randall, Rivers, Mett, and Bolden. In 2013, Mett, Rivers, Bolden, Jennings, Rettig. We had 4 QBs on roster this spring, all with at least two years of eligibility remaining, two split.
And what do we have now? How's it looking? How was it looking in 2008 and 2009?
quote:
Other than DL for 2012, we have done a pretty good job of hitting out needs.
Good to know.
This post was edited on 10/11/14 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 10/11/14 at 1:13 pm to Thorny
Why do you get so offended when Saban is mentioned. He did a lot for this school. Is he a d*ck? Yea. But to act like he didn't start a trend of LA players staying home is just stupid. I didn't say Miles hasn't continued that trend because he has. People want Miles to succeed because he is very likable and a good man. It also allows many people including me to want to overlook the glaring issues with his actual COACHING abilities. I hope he turns it around but I can tell you that our skill players won't be the ones to do it. They are great but it starts in the trenches and always has especially for LSU. With that said I hope we stomp Florida tonight. Geaux Tigers!
Posted on 10/11/14 at 1:56 pm to nm1230
1) Why are you still arguing with me about the 2014 class? Did you not see what the 2009 class did?
Do you know how many stars came out of that class???? Do you know that none of them save Claiborne, played much at all that year? These guys had two years to learn even before starting at all, or in heavy rotation.
2) I'm tired of explaining it to you moron. We have shown previously that we can make successful mid season changes. You said incompetence in the got damn OL and QB, and I pointed you a freaking exact example of those things changing mid season, right here, a couple of years ago. You with your blind will, would ignore that and say, nothing will change, nothing will get better, we suck, when I show you evidence to the fricking contrary.
3) OMG you are so fricking retarded. You will not wait for these guys to develop at all. It takes time to mature talent. Cam is a QB guru, and that was said by other coaches, not just made up fan drivel. You will not give this man a damn second to develop these guys. Everybody in the offseason, on this exact board, already said that it was going to be run game 70% of the time. People already said that it would be a year to rebuild because of youth, yet you mofos are going nuts at the exact damn things you said you knew would take time. You sound unbelievably moronic and impatient.
4) Have you seen Rivers? Have you seen Bolden? Randall did not beat out those guys after a year in the Arizona system (something you assholes think is all the time you should get). Garrett was lazy, got fat, and didnt want to come to practice, Zach Lee left for baseball. Rettig left because he knew he wasn't good enough to beat Harris out. LSU writers (who go to these practices) stated plenty of times in articles by Scout, Nola, and 247sports, that Rettig was having major trouble trying to work from under center. I won't say he is garbage, but the guy was an interception machine in high school. When you can't work under center, interception prone, not really mobile, how are you expected to beat the guys who are better in all those aspects?
I said all that to say, that it didn't freaking matter! We have had a shite ton of QBs who have transferred over the last few years. We aren't the only school with a QB depth problem because of transfers.
5) Beckwith was a true freshman and wasn't ready last year, he is finally getting his chance this year. Yes it has taken a little while, but remember that Minter was a completely different player from year one starting, to year two.
6) Where in the hell did I say that was par for the course. Reading comprehension moron, use it. I'm talking about development takes longer than one got damn year. Logan greatly improved from year one to year two, but he also had a great DT in Brockers and great DE play to aid him. Brockers improved as well from year one playing to year two. Give it time.
7) He addressed those needs moron, what don't you get? The problem is that everybody is fricking afraid of competition at LSU QB position. We had depth, they just up and transferred AFTER THE SIGNING CLASS. We got Zach Lee in 2010 Mett as a JUCO and Randall and Rivers out of high school in 2011, Bolden as a transfer in 2012, Rettig and Jennings in 2013, Harris in 2014, and currently have McMillan in 2015. We also have Feliepe in 2016, and Dinkelmann in 2018.
We have been recruiting 4 star QBs by the bunches!!! We have been recruiting our arse off at QB. They just never stay long enough.
Do you know how many stars came out of that class???? Do you know that none of them save Claiborne, played much at all that year? These guys had two years to learn even before starting at all, or in heavy rotation.
2) I'm tired of explaining it to you moron. We have shown previously that we can make successful mid season changes. You said incompetence in the got damn OL and QB, and I pointed you a freaking exact example of those things changing mid season, right here, a couple of years ago. You with your blind will, would ignore that and say, nothing will change, nothing will get better, we suck, when I show you evidence to the fricking contrary.
3) OMG you are so fricking retarded. You will not wait for these guys to develop at all. It takes time to mature talent. Cam is a QB guru, and that was said by other coaches, not just made up fan drivel. You will not give this man a damn second to develop these guys. Everybody in the offseason, on this exact board, already said that it was going to be run game 70% of the time. People already said that it would be a year to rebuild because of youth, yet you mofos are going nuts at the exact damn things you said you knew would take time. You sound unbelievably moronic and impatient.
4) Have you seen Rivers? Have you seen Bolden? Randall did not beat out those guys after a year in the Arizona system (something you assholes think is all the time you should get). Garrett was lazy, got fat, and didnt want to come to practice, Zach Lee left for baseball. Rettig left because he knew he wasn't good enough to beat Harris out. LSU writers (who go to these practices) stated plenty of times in articles by Scout, Nola, and 247sports, that Rettig was having major trouble trying to work from under center. I won't say he is garbage, but the guy was an interception machine in high school. When you can't work under center, interception prone, not really mobile, how are you expected to beat the guys who are better in all those aspects?
I said all that to say, that it didn't freaking matter! We have had a shite ton of QBs who have transferred over the last few years. We aren't the only school with a QB depth problem because of transfers.
5) Beckwith was a true freshman and wasn't ready last year, he is finally getting his chance this year. Yes it has taken a little while, but remember that Minter was a completely different player from year one starting, to year two.
6) Where in the hell did I say that was par for the course. Reading comprehension moron, use it. I'm talking about development takes longer than one got damn year. Logan greatly improved from year one to year two, but he also had a great DT in Brockers and great DE play to aid him. Brockers improved as well from year one playing to year two. Give it time.
7) He addressed those needs moron, what don't you get? The problem is that everybody is fricking afraid of competition at LSU QB position. We had depth, they just up and transferred AFTER THE SIGNING CLASS. We got Zach Lee in 2010 Mett as a JUCO and Randall and Rivers out of high school in 2011, Bolden as a transfer in 2012, Rettig and Jennings in 2013, Harris in 2014, and currently have McMillan in 2015. We also have Feliepe in 2016, and Dinkelmann in 2018.
We have been recruiting 4 star QBs by the bunches!!! We have been recruiting our arse off at QB. They just never stay long enough.
This post was edited on 10/11/14 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 10/11/14 at 2:50 pm to Datbayoubengal
quote:
1) Why are you still arguing with me about the 2014 class? Did you not see what the 2009 class did?
Do you know how many stars came out of that class???? Do you know that none of them save Claiborne, played much at all that year? These guys had two years to learn even before starting at all, or in heavy rotation.
2) I'm tired of explaining it to you moron. We have shown previously that we can make successful mid season changes. You said incompetence in the got damn OL and QB, and I pointed you a freaking exact example of those things changing mid season, right here, a couple of years ago. You with your blind will, would ignore that and say, nothing will change, nothing will get better, we suck, when I show you evidence to the fricking contrary.
3) OMG you are so fricking retarded. You will not wait for these guys to develop at all. It takes time to mature talent. Cam is a QB guru, and that was said by other coaches, not just made up fan drivel. You will not give this man a damn second to develop these guys. Everybody in the offseason, on this exact board, already said that it was going to be run game 70% of the time. People already said that it would be a year to rebuild because of youth, yet you mofos are going nuts at the exact damn things you said you knew would take time. You sound unbelievably moronic and impatient.
4) Have you seen Rivers? Have you seen Bolden? Randall did not beat out those guys after a year in the Arizona system (something you assholes think is all the time you should get). Garrett was lazy, got fat, and didnt want to come to practice, Zach Lee left for baseball. Rettig left because he knew he wasn't good enough to beat Harris out. LSU writers (who go to these practices) stated plenty of times in articles by Scout, Nola, and 247sports, that Rettig was having major trouble trying to work from under center. I won't say he is garbage, but the guy was an interception machine in high school. When you can't work under center, interception prone, not really mobile, how are you expected to beat the guys who are better in all those aspects?
I said all that to say, that it didn't freaking matter! We have had a shite ton of QBs who have transferred over the last few years. We aren't the only school with a QB depth problem because of transfers.
5) Beckwith was a true freshman and wasn't ready last year, he is finally getting his chance this year. Yes it has taken a little while, but remember that Minter was a completely different player from year one starting, to year two.
6) Where in the hell did I say that was par for the course. Reading comprehension moron, use it. I'm talking about development takes longer than one got damn year. Logan greatly improved from year one to year two, but he also had a great DT in Brockers and great DE play to aid him. Brockers improved as well from year one playing to year two. Give it time.
7) He addressed those needs moron, what don't you get? The problem is that everybody is fricking afraid of competition at LSU QB position. We had depth, they just up and transferred AFTER THE SIGNING CLASS. We got Zach Lee in 2010 Mett as a JUCO and Randall and Rivers out of high school in 2011, Bolden as a transfer in 2012, Rettig and Jennings in 2013, Harris in 2014, and currently have McMillan in 2015. We also have Feliepe in 2016, and Dinkelmann in 2018.
We have been recruiting 4 star QBs by the bunches!!! We have been recruiting our arse off at QB. They just never stay long enough.
Cool, sounds like you've got it figured out and LSU is right where they need to be.
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