- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Another "when we beat Bama..."
Posted on 11/3/13 at 11:54 pm to GCTiger11
Posted on 11/3/13 at 11:54 pm to GCTiger11
quote:Already said what I felt like saying. You don't get it and you're being ________ about it.
This is a classic case of getting owned in argument and having nothing left to say.
You didn't own shite. Shut up and stop being an a-hole to people who disagree with you and aren't as whiny as you are.
1
Posted on 11/4/13 at 12:03 am to ballscaster
quote:
Already said what I felt like saying. You don't get it and you're being ________ about it.
Cool. And what you said was nothing. Compelling argument. You should change that "purple" in your sig text to "blue". I bet you will be so proud when you see Alabama hoist another crystal ball. I'm glad them winning another ones give us, the other 13 SEC schools, a reason to ride their coattails and flaunt our conference pride to other schools even though this is the only conference that does that silly shite.
quote:
You didn't own shite. Shut up and stop being an a-hole to people who disagree with you and aren't as whiny as you are.
You keep rehashing terms like "whiny" and "butthurt". Since when did rooting for scenarios and circumstances that would be in the best interest for my school's football program become "whiny" and "butthurt"?
Please try to answer without a smartass remark or using the words in quotes above.
This post was edited on 11/4/13 at 12:15 am
Posted on 11/4/13 at 2:21 am to GCTiger11
I think I may have looked into the history of the national championships in college football probably more than 95% of the college football fan base has.
There are quite a few problems in trying to sort this thing out, and probably the biggest problem is that no professional historian to my knowledge has written a book on the subject. You can find a good, well-documented article on the Internet about it. But the problem with that is that it leaves you hanging, since its brevity does not provide the overall context nor the immediate contexts of each national championship claimed or 'officially' posted. I wish that somebody like Tony Barnhart would tackle this and write the definitive book on the subject.
Another obvious problem is that before the AP started cranking out its national championship winners in 1936, there were a number of other "unofficial" entities awarding national championships. It was a situation that could be roughly compared to you or me setting up a blog and awarding a national championship to our team of preference.
Maybe such an entity would have sufficient respect of the public to be doing something like this, and maybe it did not. It seems obvious that no one has studied this situation enough to determine which of these entities should be considered an 'authority' and which should not be.
Certain entities such as a Grantland Rice would obviously have sufficient gravitas, but others, particularly now that we are more than three-quarters of a century removed from the situation, cannot, on the face of it, be declared to have such obvious believability. On the other hand, a historical entity that would seem invalid to us today on the face of it, might have been based on more solid ground than we realize today. "Bottom line": No professional historian of Sport has done a sufficient study of the situation that I know of.
I'm now going to make an estimation of the overall matter based upon a particular example. So take it for what it's worth -- it's the best I can do without doing the massive study necessary to settle the matter.
Bear Bryant won six national championships at Alabama under the system of two main national championships being awarded anually, one by the AP (writers' poll) and the other by the UP (coaches' poll). Sometime during Bryant's career at Alabama (1958-82), one of these two polls decided to start awarding their national championship after the bowls on New Years day. That was before so many bowls sprang up.
Of Bryant's six national championships, only two, the one in 1961 and the other in 1979, included both the AP and UP awards. The other four -- 1964, 1965, 1973, and 1978 -- each was awarded by only one of the two wire services (AP or UP).
In a disputed call Tommy Nobis, the Texas linebacker, stopped Joe Namath on the goal line in the 1965 Orange Bowl, depriving Alabama of both "halves" of the 1964 national championship.
The 1965 national championship was awarded after Alabama beat Nebraska 39-28 in the Orange Bowl. I believe Nebraska went into that game undefeated and already had been voted national champions by one of the two wire services. Alabama had a 16-15 loss to Georgia at the beginning of the year and a 7-7 tie with Tennessee. Bear Bryant specifically told his players going into that game that it was their job to win this game, that (I believe it was) two other teams would have to lose on New Years, and that once those dominoes had all fallen, Alabama would be national champs. It all happened just the way he predicted.
Alabama had a chance at the 1977 national championship, drubbing Woody Hayes' Ohio State team in the 1978 Sugar Bowl. But Notre Dame, with Joe Montana, leap frogged over Alabama from fifth in the polls to the post-bowl game national championship by beating Texas in the Cotton Bowl.
I believe it was Charles White who (as the TV camera clearly showed, but there was no review back then) fumbled the ball on the goal line in the 1979 Rose Bowl, but the referees saw it differently, the result being a USC national championship, in effect robbing Alabama of both "halves" (AP and UP) of the 1978 national championship.
Can you understand how I wince every time I hear an LSU fan use the following terms/phrases/statements? "They backed into the championship." "They only won half a championship." Even: "They were given a Mulligan."
If a competent study were done of all the national championships ever awarded down through the years , before or after 1936, my hunch is that you would find that a great many of them have been "backed into," or were "half-championships" (if not "one-third or one-fourth championships"), and no telling how many times a "Mulligan" was involved.
In fact, the 1958 LSU national championship, which was (I believe) awarded by both the AP and UP, was not necessarily the norm; it may have been the exception.
In other words, some of you LSU people who are into "low-rating" (old Alabama term) your national championships, when, say, only one wire service awarded it to you, or when you won it by "backing into it" with two losses -- are probably selling yourself short, if the historical truth were told as it needs to be.
No,I can't say this with absolute certainty. But given the limited knowledge we have of the subject, it is probably a myth that the national championships down through history were for the most part grand and glorious affairs in which one team so swept through the opposition that there was no question in anybody's mind as to who won the national championship that year.
That this is a myth is obviously probable because no doubt on several occasions more than one team around the country had such a grand and glorious season. Therein lies the problem. Who was right about who won the national championship in such a year? Subjectivity entered into the matter, just as it remains with us today.
Auburn and Alabama, for what it's worth, have both been on the short end of this situation. I forget just what year Auburn went something like 15-0 and didn't even get into the national championship game.
In 1966 Alabama with QB Kenny Stabler went 11-0-0, but Notre Dame and Michigan State each had a tie, the result of playing each other in the regular season, when Ara Parseghian chose to go for the tie rather than two points. Both Notre Dame and Michigan State wound up ahead of Alabama in the final polls. If Alabama had been awarded that national championship, it would have been the only time in the modern era (1936 ff.)that a team has won three national championships in a row (1964, 1965, and 1966).
Tom Lugenbill of ESPN said the other day that the BCS formula is less subjective than the new system that is going to involve the decision of a committee as to who gets into the championship game.
There are quite a few problems in trying to sort this thing out, and probably the biggest problem is that no professional historian to my knowledge has written a book on the subject. You can find a good, well-documented article on the Internet about it. But the problem with that is that it leaves you hanging, since its brevity does not provide the overall context nor the immediate contexts of each national championship claimed or 'officially' posted. I wish that somebody like Tony Barnhart would tackle this and write the definitive book on the subject.
Another obvious problem is that before the AP started cranking out its national championship winners in 1936, there were a number of other "unofficial" entities awarding national championships. It was a situation that could be roughly compared to you or me setting up a blog and awarding a national championship to our team of preference.
Maybe such an entity would have sufficient respect of the public to be doing something like this, and maybe it did not. It seems obvious that no one has studied this situation enough to determine which of these entities should be considered an 'authority' and which should not be.
Certain entities such as a Grantland Rice would obviously have sufficient gravitas, but others, particularly now that we are more than three-quarters of a century removed from the situation, cannot, on the face of it, be declared to have such obvious believability. On the other hand, a historical entity that would seem invalid to us today on the face of it, might have been based on more solid ground than we realize today. "Bottom line": No professional historian of Sport has done a sufficient study of the situation that I know of.
I'm now going to make an estimation of the overall matter based upon a particular example. So take it for what it's worth -- it's the best I can do without doing the massive study necessary to settle the matter.
Bear Bryant won six national championships at Alabama under the system of two main national championships being awarded anually, one by the AP (writers' poll) and the other by the UP (coaches' poll). Sometime during Bryant's career at Alabama (1958-82), one of these two polls decided to start awarding their national championship after the bowls on New Years day. That was before so many bowls sprang up.
Of Bryant's six national championships, only two, the one in 1961 and the other in 1979, included both the AP and UP awards. The other four -- 1964, 1965, 1973, and 1978 -- each was awarded by only one of the two wire services (AP or UP).
In a disputed call Tommy Nobis, the Texas linebacker, stopped Joe Namath on the goal line in the 1965 Orange Bowl, depriving Alabama of both "halves" of the 1964 national championship.
The 1965 national championship was awarded after Alabama beat Nebraska 39-28 in the Orange Bowl. I believe Nebraska went into that game undefeated and already had been voted national champions by one of the two wire services. Alabama had a 16-15 loss to Georgia at the beginning of the year and a 7-7 tie with Tennessee. Bear Bryant specifically told his players going into that game that it was their job to win this game, that (I believe it was) two other teams would have to lose on New Years, and that once those dominoes had all fallen, Alabama would be national champs. It all happened just the way he predicted.
Alabama had a chance at the 1977 national championship, drubbing Woody Hayes' Ohio State team in the 1978 Sugar Bowl. But Notre Dame, with Joe Montana, leap frogged over Alabama from fifth in the polls to the post-bowl game national championship by beating Texas in the Cotton Bowl.
I believe it was Charles White who (as the TV camera clearly showed, but there was no review back then) fumbled the ball on the goal line in the 1979 Rose Bowl, but the referees saw it differently, the result being a USC national championship, in effect robbing Alabama of both "halves" (AP and UP) of the 1978 national championship.
Can you understand how I wince every time I hear an LSU fan use the following terms/phrases/statements? "They backed into the championship." "They only won half a championship." Even: "They were given a Mulligan."
If a competent study were done of all the national championships ever awarded down through the years , before or after 1936, my hunch is that you would find that a great many of them have been "backed into," or were "half-championships" (if not "one-third or one-fourth championships"), and no telling how many times a "Mulligan" was involved.
In fact, the 1958 LSU national championship, which was (I believe) awarded by both the AP and UP, was not necessarily the norm; it may have been the exception.
In other words, some of you LSU people who are into "low-rating" (old Alabama term) your national championships, when, say, only one wire service awarded it to you, or when you won it by "backing into it" with two losses -- are probably selling yourself short, if the historical truth were told as it needs to be.
No,I can't say this with absolute certainty. But given the limited knowledge we have of the subject, it is probably a myth that the national championships down through history were for the most part grand and glorious affairs in which one team so swept through the opposition that there was no question in anybody's mind as to who won the national championship that year.
That this is a myth is obviously probable because no doubt on several occasions more than one team around the country had such a grand and glorious season. Therein lies the problem. Who was right about who won the national championship in such a year? Subjectivity entered into the matter, just as it remains with us today.
Auburn and Alabama, for what it's worth, have both been on the short end of this situation. I forget just what year Auburn went something like 15-0 and didn't even get into the national championship game.
In 1966 Alabama with QB Kenny Stabler went 11-0-0, but Notre Dame and Michigan State each had a tie, the result of playing each other in the regular season, when Ara Parseghian chose to go for the tie rather than two points. Both Notre Dame and Michigan State wound up ahead of Alabama in the final polls. If Alabama had been awarded that national championship, it would have been the only time in the modern era (1936 ff.)that a team has won three national championships in a row (1964, 1965, and 1966).
Tom Lugenbill of ESPN said the other day that the BCS formula is less subjective than the new system that is going to involve the decision of a committee as to who gets into the championship game.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 2:26 am to JBREAUX4LSU
Realistically, I want Alabama to finish 13-1 as champs if we get that one loss on them at this point. I don't really care if Alabama gets another one, it's the last BCSCG and I want the SEC to get 8 in a row. We'll have plenty of chances at them in the playoffs.
My pipe dream is that they drop the Iron Bowl as well, and that Georgia KO's Auburn and we win the SEC. Then we have some 2007 shenanigans and back into the title game and blow out Ohio State. But that won't happen so I'll happily take an 11-2 Sugar Bowl season and let Bama hoist the crown one last time.
My pipe dream is that they drop the Iron Bowl as well, and that Georgia KO's Auburn and we win the SEC. Then we have some 2007 shenanigans and back into the title game and blow out Ohio State. But that won't happen so I'll happily take an 11-2 Sugar Bowl season and let Bama hoist the crown one last time.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 2:31 am to DallasTiger
it should bother you if bama still got in.. it hurts recruiting.. especially top recruits in state. as an LSU fan, you really should not want Bama to continue to have championship success.
I'm a huge SEC fan as well come bowl season, but not Bama. not now. it's hurting more than it helps. it's the truth.
I'm a huge SEC fan as well come bowl season, but not Bama. not now. it's hurting more than it helps. it's the truth.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 3:32 am to GCTiger11
Are you guys kidding me with this sh*t?? I want Bammer to LOSE,LOSE,and LOSE!!! F**k SEC pride!!!And Geaux Tigers!!!! 
Posted on 11/4/13 at 3:50 am to DallasTiger
quote:
You mean as in when Bama plays by the same rules as every other team and still ends up with the trophy?
You do realize that the last two teams standing for the BCS championship game are both the beneficiaries of the faults of all the other teams that come up just short, don't you?
And if you want to talk "magic," may I introduce you to the 2007 BCS Champion LSU Tigers. Losers to both Kentucky and Arkansas, the latter in the final game of the season.
In 2007, LSU took advantage of the same "magic" you and the OP whine about, and benefited from a rash of upsets of contending teams the last couple weeks of the season. I'm not going to research this, but isn't the 2007 LSU the only two-loss BCS Champion? Would you care to give that BCS trophy back because of too much "magic." I wouldn't. I was proud of LSU for winning that crystal and still am.
Bama consistently wins because they are consistently better - maybe not a lot better but still better. Will they win it every year? No, not realistic. But under Saban they will contend every year.
The amount of envy and butthurt on this site by people trying to diminish Bama's accomplishments is astonishing.
It was a whole lot of frickery going on with the refs in the 09 LSU/Bama game and they beat Tennessee on a blocked FG. Auburn was up 21-20 with 1:30 left on the clock Bama scored and Auburn was driving and ended up at the Bama 37 to end it.
In 2011, Oklahoma St wins in double OT and game over for Bama's season, and LSU hoists its second in 4 years. The media played a large role in Bama getting their second chance. I have never seen a team win a rematch game in CFB for a while and if they do, it is extremely rare. (YES I AM BUTTHURT)
In 2012 Prevent Chavis prevents us again from keeping a team from last drive scoring and Miles tricker-ration, tricked us right out of a win. They lost against TAMU and then others had to fall yet again when they had a championship berth in the bag. Five yards away from losing yet again against UGA.
They are still the best team every year but they are not invincible like the media wants everybody to believe and they are extremely blessed by the football Gods. Sure LSU had a incredibly lucky break in 07 but that doesn't beat lucky breaks, media bias, and refs (09) for 3 out of the past four years. This extreme amount of luck has to have a double edge right?
Posted on 11/4/13 at 7:08 am to GCTiger11
quote:I never said anything of the sort.
Since when did rooting for scenarios and circumstances that would be in the best interest for my school's football program become "whiny" and "butthurt"?
quote:I did, though it was a stupid question that you wouldn't have asked if you weren't being such a whiny butthurt fat girlfriend. The whiny butthurt stuff is a reference not to a preference that Alabama doesn't win a title, but to you. You're jealous that somebody gets a better football team than you do, and you're being a whiny butthole preschool tantrum-thrower about it and then compounding it when somebody points it out and you deflect it with the self victimizing crap like "Since when does rooting for LSU's best interests make me butthurt?" The fact that Alabama is good at football makes people angry, and having that pointed out makes those people more angry, and that's a problem with you, not with your rooting interests and preferences.
Please try to answer without a smartass remark or using the words in quotes above.
You've been labeled accurately in this thread. When did you to to LSU btw?
Posted on 11/4/13 at 1:42 pm to ballscaster
quote:
I did, though it was a stupid question that you wouldn't have asked if you weren't being such a whiny butthurt fat girlfriend
How is it dumb? You said you will root for Alabama to win a title if they make it back. I told you to list the positives and negatives to that not happening. You list nothing and tell me you answered my question. That is not answering a question, hoss. But keep being ignorant. It seems every thread you post in is an argument. You're either really just an arrogant douche or a gigantic troll. FTR, acting like you don't care about Alabama being better doesn't make you better than anyone here so you know. You're just spewing that "Oh I don't care, I'll lay down and take whatever comes at me" bullshite you were displaying in that other thread a while back.
quote:
You're jealous that somebody gets a better football team than you do, and you're being a whiny butthole preschool tantrum-thrower about it and then compounding it when somebody points it out and you deflect it with the self victimizing crap like "Since when does rooting for LSU's best interests make me butthurt?"
Yes, I'm rather envious that Alabama has a better football program. Will it be the end of the world if they win another championship? Nah.
But fine, if you think the question is stupid, I'll rephrase. How does Alabama winning another NC help LSU?
This post was edited on 11/4/13 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 11/4/13 at 4:31 pm to GCTiger11
quote:Because nobody ever said that rooting for LSU's best interests is being whiny and butthurt. I already told you this.
How is it dumb?
quote:Excellent memory.
You said you will root for Alabama to win a title if they make it back.
quote:My list was complete. Your question is answered.
I told you to list the positives and negatives to that not happening. You list nothing and tell me you answered my question. That is not answering a question, hoss.
quote:This kind of stuff is why we kept saying you're acting ________.
FTR, acting like you don't care about Alabama being better doesn't make you better than anyone here so you know. You're just spewing that "Oh I don't care, I'll lay down and take whatever comes at me" bullshite you were displaying in that other thread a while back.
quote:We all know, and you're being made fun of for it.
I'm rather envious that Alabama has a better football program.
quote:Never said it did. Everything I said in this thread is perfectly clear and reasonable. Something about it bothers you, and you're trying to analyze everything I say like you're on your period or something.
How does Alabama winning another NC help LSU?
Posted on 11/4/13 at 4:33 pm to JBREAUX4LSU
quote:
Are a majority of you guys going to then root for Oregon/FSU/OSU/Baylor etc. to make the championship and end the SEC's title streak
This
Posted on 11/4/13 at 4:36 pm to ballscaster
Ok let's get this straight.
Who am I getting "made fun of" by in this thread? You're the only one I'm talking with now. Trust me, you guys who care about a dumb SEC streak are in the minority on this board.
I get it. You didn't list any positives and negatives. That's your clever way of saying there are none. Funny. You are also admitting Alabama winning another national championship does not help LSU. That we can agree with. Now are you implying Alabama winning another title doesn't hurt LSU either?
Who am I getting "made fun of" by in this thread? You're the only one I'm talking with now. Trust me, you guys who care about a dumb SEC streak are in the minority on this board.
I get it. You didn't list any positives and negatives. That's your clever way of saying there are none. Funny. You are also admitting Alabama winning another national championship does not help LSU. That we can agree with. Now are you implying Alabama winning another title doesn't hurt LSU either?
Posted on 11/4/13 at 4:40 pm to GCTiger11
quote:Looks like somebody finally figured something out.
I get it. You didn't list any positives and negatives. That's your clever way of saying there are none.
quote:I haven't implied anything. I've just said stuff.
Now are you implying Alabama winning another title doesn't hurt LSU either?
Posted on 11/4/13 at 4:46 pm to ballscaster
quote:Try last night.
Looks like somebody finally figured something out.
LINK
quote:
I haven't implied anything. I've just said stuff.
Riveting stuff, chap. The only thing I'm taking from this conversation is that you are openly rooting for something that is not in the best interest to LSU.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 4:48 pm to BobBoucher
BobBoucher, "then you have to pull for Bama if they make it" In case you haven't noticed, a lot of top recruits narrow their choices to LSU or Alabama. The more success Alabama achieves, the more the pendulum will swing in their favor in recruiting. IMO, that situation has already impacted the LSU program since the BSCCG as evidenced by some high schoolers' recent decisions. I certainly don't want to see it get worse.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 5:01 pm to SouthernRabbit
SouthernRabbit, you are way too literate for this site. You also must have a lot of down time. I did note, however, that you slipped some personal opinions into your impressive factual account.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 5:04 pm to JBREAUX4LSU
frick Bama.
Page 4 of 4
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News