re: 85 or 125 as roster limit?

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The question at hand is after you have your 85 if you have a 5 star want to come onboard why not just say we don't have a scholarship slot open, but we've got this big juicy NIL deal that will let you pay your own way."

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So a couple of things to consider here:

1. An athletics scholarship includes way more than tuition nowadays. There are meal plans, stipends, and (in the wake of the Alston ruling) even stuff like laptops. A big NIL deal could certainly cover these costs, but it’s more stuff for the player to manage.

2. Scholarships are guaranteed and must be renewed each year unless the player screws up (fails to qualify academically, enters the portal, gets dismissed for disciplinary reasons, etc.). NIL deals don’t have the same level of certainty. It could potentially be much easier to process players on pure NIL than scholarship players.

3. While you can technically have 125 players on the roster, there are other limitations that need to be considered. Visiting teams in the SEC are limited to 70 players. The home team can dress as many players as they want but only 80 can participate in the game. Non-participating players aren’t eligible for pregame meals, team hotel stay, etc.

For these reasons and more, I think it’s unlikely that many (if any) 5-star players would be willing to accept that sort of arrangement.

That’s a totally different rule you are referring to.

It even goes further, that if any walk-on gets any aid, even outside the school, that is related to athletics, he becomes a “counter”

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That’s a totally different rule you are referring to.

It even goes further, that if any walk-on gets any aid, even outside the school, that is related to athletics, he becomes a “counter”

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Yes they become a counter against the 85 if they receive financial aid, whether recruited or non-recruited. Previously they did not become an initial counter as long as they weren’t recruited but as I said it’s a moot point now.

But I’ve spent more time than I’d like to admit reading the D1 manual and I haven’t seen anything to suggest:
A) that a recruited player who walks on (without receiving financial aid) counts against the 85 scholarships, or
B) that NIL counts as financial aid for the purposes of determining counters.

I’m not saying outright that it doesn’t exist, but I’ve looked for it and haven’t seen anything.

Note that financial aid from the institution is the only athletically-related aid that’s actually permissible under NCAA rules. Any other athletically-related aid would technically be impermissible benefits. So I don’t see how the NCAA can count NIL in that scenario when it’s illegal for NIL to be tied to athletic performance or participation in the first place.

I don’t think we’re going to see much of this in football for reasons I already laid out. However, I would not be shocked to see NIL used as a workaround in equivalency sports like baseball.

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Can you imagine paying 55 kids that don’t even travel?

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Guarantee if any other school does it, people will immediately come here posting “need more fans to donate”.

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Good post. All correct. If payers are played then acknowledging the athletes as employees in some capacity is what should happen, but I’m not sure I see a clear path to that.

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The problem is even if they went to a direct pay model with the athletic departments making a payment directly to athletes and trying to have a salary cap model, it won't work since they still can't stop NIL. The NIL ruling will continue to stand, and you will just have NIL tacked on top of the direct payments. It would be like trying to prevent an NFL player from getting endorsements, that's not happening.

In the end NIL has started an unlimited arms race in college sports and there is basically a way around most if not all rules as long as you have the will and money.

Programs may be tiptoeing now but not for long.

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Athletic Financial Aid Rules Mandated by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA)

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Thanks for the link.

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Financial Aid from Outside Sources

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So this appears to be referencing bylaw 15.02.5.3:

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15.02.5.3 Other Permissible Financial Aid. The following sources of financial aid are also permitted: (Adopted: 1/10/95 effective 8/1/95, Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, 10/17/19)
(a) Financial aid received from anyone upon whom the student-athlete is naturally or legally dependent;
(b) Financial aid awarded solely on bases having no relationship to athletics ability;
(c) Financial aid awarded through an established and continuing outside program as outlined in Bylaw 15.2.6.4; and
(d) Educational expenses awarded by the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee, which count against an institution's sport-by-sport financial aid limitations and against the individual's maximum limit on financial aid.

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The reference to existing and continuous programs under 15.2.6.4 says the following:

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15.2.6.4 Athletically Related Financial Aid From an Established and Continuing Program -- Aid Exceeding $1,000. Each academic year, after a student-athlete has received $1,000 of athletically related outside financial aid, the student-athlete may receive additional athletically related outside financial aid through an established and continuing program to aid students without the additional aid counting in the institution's financial aid limitations, provided: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, Revised: 4/23/14, 5/1/19 effective 8/1/19, 7/2/19 effective 8/1/19)
(a) The recipient's choice of institutions is not restricted by the donor of the aid;
(b) There is no direct connection between the donor and the student-athlete's institution; and
(c) The financial aid is not provided by an outside sports team or organization that conducts a competitive sports program to an individual who is or has been a member of that team or organization.
If any of the conditions are not satisfied and the student-athlete receives the additional athletically related outside financial aid, the recipient shall be considered a counter per Bylaw 15.5.1, and the amount shall be applied to the maximum awards limitation of Bylaw 15.5 for the sport in question.

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So I suppose I shouldn’t have said the institution is the only legal source of athletically-related aid - apparently there is an exception for outside aid from impartial sources, as long as it’s an existing and continuous program. I assume this is meant to cover various legitimate scholarship programs. Basically scholarship programs through charitable organizations; apparently there must be some of these organizations that award “athletic” scholarships.

I found a flow chart in the D1 manual that seems to indicate this exception only exists for non-recruited athletes, but can’t find the actual citation. It’s also worth noting that in football and basketball, a non-recruited player can receive other non-athletic institutional financial aid (think TOPS or academic scholarships) and compete without being a counter. However, if a recruited player receives that type of aid and competes, they’re a counter.

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If it did happen, it would be for a 2-star or 3-star with potential that they don't have room for, but would like to develop.

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I agree. It’d be more like a way to incentivize PWO’s who, for reasons outlined above, wouldn’t be able to accept other non-athletic aid.

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So I suppose I shouldn’t have said the institution is the only legal source of athletically-related aid - apparently there is an exception for outside aid from impartial sources, as long as it’s an existing and continuous program. I assume this is meant to cover various legitimate scholarship programs. Basically scholarship programs through charitable organizations; apparently there must be some of these organizations that award “athletic” scholarships.

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Yea, I think it's for like a local Boys Club or other groups gives a $500 scholarship or The Optimist Club awards their "Prep Player of the Year" and he gets $1000. They don't want that to affect eligibility.

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This has nothing to do with the student. This is just how he is classified within the athletic scholarship structure.

A student CAN get NIL and pay his tuition. Nothing is stopping them. He just gets categorized differently, which is on the school, not the student.

And no rational person could argue in court that the NIL was unrelated to athletic ability. The rule can say it is unrelated, but that's BS and everyone knows it.

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I guess I just don't see how you can change an athlete's classification based on their having a job. That would seem like something that could be challenged to me. You can't reclassify everyone who gets a job. With the NIL ruling an athlete getting a fry cook job at Cane's is the same as a NIL deal of $1 million as "brand ambassador" at Cane's. A job is a job. That's where we are today for better or worse.

And the argument of NIL and athletic ability is moot. No way to prove or disprove. Good athlete is famous, you "hired" because they're famous not because of athletic ability. You can't prove or disprove so it stands. BS or not, there is absolutely nothing to do. And the famous part is subjective, nothing anyone can do.

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