PvP in MMO's, why is it always broken?

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Why reward someone in PvP for time spent on game?

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Because that means if you want to be good at PVP, you'll spend more time playing the game

which means more money for who people who made the game

which is always the end result

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PvP is always broken because it is connected to a revenue stream

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I think more people would play and find it enjoyable keeping subs going longer. Otherwise you have like a minimal retention..ie 100 people try pvp...80 leave it....frick this BS

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I think more people would play and find it enjoyable keeping subs going longer. Otherwise you have like a minimal retention..ie 100 people try pvp...80 leave it....frick this BS

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But they don't. Right now, there are enough min-maxers out there who chase grinding because it makes them "better."

Until MMOs find a way to make the grind actually fun, rather than a grind, it is what keeps subs going. The only people who will relentlessly pay for a subscription are those very people. They find the holes. They find the kinks, the game ends up balanced around grinders rather than casuals. Casual players, those who want a fair, balanced PvP environment, are not serious enough to balance a game around.

This is why every single MMO, at least the ones I played, ended up gating content, creating gates to gates (I'm looking at you LOTRO), ruining PvP, etc.

GW2 did it right by separating PvP and PvE content exclusively. Even your gear was generally separate. Over time, they closed the gap in the PvP zones, but it was still manageable to a degree.

I mean, in theory, people who play the game more should have the benefit of getting more out of it, ie loot and stuff. But this creates the rift between people who devote all their time and people who simply can't.

I actually think this is why MOBAs gained a ton of traction over the last 4-5 years. In many MOBAs, every single player in the game starts from the same level. Has access to the same gear, money, and options. It is purely skill that separates. Granted, better players are better players, but that isn't so present in something like Smite or DOTA2. (LoL at last check did give some benefits to players before the match, that's why I quite playing it).

Smite took over my MMO/PvP needs. It sucks that it isn't connected to a larger/over arching story, but it is exponentially more fair than any other PvP part of any game (even something like Halo just sucks when you don't have access to the same weaponry). I used to play MMORPGs all the time, but the lack of fair PvP, accommodations other than grinding, and just over structure-being built to siphon money out of people rather than to tell a cool story and be part of a world-pushed me far away. That's mostly WoW's theme park approaches fault, but it's the entire genre that went that direction. My hit list included everything from EQ, DAoC, Horizon, SWG, City of Heroes to Guild Wars, LOTRO, Rift, and a plethora of others I can't even remember.

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How often have you entered a PvP instance and 5 guys are trying to take down one dude who is supposedly the same level as you all are? I've seen it time and time again, and see people leave PvP never to come back.

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Did you ever think this might be about what skills they use and their skill as a player? The list you put down is from ESO and they are introducing a PVP server that doesn't use champion points which will balance it some.

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Why is it so unthinkable to allow players to all be on the same level when entering a PvP instance?

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This is supposed to put players on the same level unless you suggest all level 10s go against each other, all 11s etc.

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If you played Rift, Star Wars, Elder SO, etc...with "scaling" features and "Legendary armors" basically making it Gear/Weapon based versus skill based.

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This is supposed to put players on the same level unless you suggest all level 10s go against each other, all 11s etc.

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10-15, 16-20, 21-29, 30-45, etc Tier PvP (Starwars had this)

some breakdown like this. 15's are destroying 10's, but when they hit 16, the tables turn. A 12 can beat a 15, it will just be a little harder.

Ideally, When you enter PvP...all your purple,green,gold,blue items...turn the generic white version. So no matter what level 50 armor piece you have on, it will be the same stats as everyone else's armor piece for that class.

I think that if you want competitive PVP, you're playing the wrong genre. That said, even FPS games these days come standard with RPG aspects, locking equipment and guns behind a specific level or rank. It's the wrong move in my opinion.

There's a reason why games like Halo, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, and Counter Strike were as popular as they were.

Vanilla WoW world PvP was greatness. It was on when "alliance raiding TB" showed up in the chat

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Alterac Valley in WoW

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AV was amazing and it felt like a huge accomplishment when you won before the blitz became popular. The couple day long AV's were way more fun than the zergs.

There was always a group of assholes that would bitch and gripe if you stopped to kill people on the plains between the two bases. It basically became raiding an empty city.

Vanilla WoW had some good PvP, we had a group that hit up WSG in nothing but bullshite grey and green gear to look like farmers, magicians, and other dumb shite and went like 30-1 one night only losing 3-2 to a team that was decked out in BWL gear. Seemed like as the expansions came the gear scaled more for the raids to make a huge gap at top level.

UO had PvP right. Then made trammel.