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Message
Left broth on stove
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:09 am
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:09 am
I know this has been discussed in the not too distant past, but I couldn't find the thread- I made some chicken broth last night- at about 9:30 or 10:00, I turned the stove off and left the pot to cool before I took the bones and veggies out to put it away, and left it uncovered overnight with bones in the broth. A few things I read this morning said if you boil it for 10 minutes, it will kill e coli and botulism, etc, but I want some first hand experiences from my FDB peeps. It's about 3 qts chicken broth.
This post was edited on 1/5/16 at 9:10 am
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:13 am to LSUGUMBO
I've done it and used the broth before without getting sick. I do remember from microbiology or some other class that you can get sick from toxins released by the organisms and heating wont help with that.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:14 am to LSUGUMBO
I would do that. Strain it and bring up to low boil for a few then cool down completely and refrigerate. Cool temperatures I'd keep it.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:20 am to LSUGUMBO
a trick for next time, put the pot in the oven at 200 all night
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:24 am to LSUGUMBO
I'd toss it. Broth is an especially encouraging medium for bacterial growth.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:50 am to LSUGUMBO
quote:
it will kill e coli and botulism, etc,
Botulism is a toxin that is released by microbes. Once released it is not affected by boiling.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:52 am to LSUGUMBO
Man, I don't think I'd eat that. Broth is an IDEAL medium for bacterial growth. It's one of the things real microbiologists use to rapidly grow bacteria in a lab.
As others have said, the bacteria per se aren't the problem. It's the toxins they produce that are. Unfortunately, while the bacteria aren't usually heat stable, the toxins typically are. Cooking won't make tainted broth safe because the temperature at which the toxins are broken down and rendered safe is above the boiling point of water, so you'll just boil off the water and make the poison even more concentrated. Even more fun is that some of the nastiest and most effective toxins are also some of the most heat stable. Even more fun than that is that C. botulinum itself is heat stable. Try to boil it to kill it, and it'll just make spores and survive because that's how it rolls.
Incidentally, this is why canning often takes place in pressure cookers and medical instruments are autoclaved and not just boiled. The additional pressure makes water boil at a high enough temperature to kill C. botulinum and other heat resistant pathogens. The autoclave gets hot enough to actually break down many of the toxins. An open pot of water boiling on a stove just won't get hot enough.
I'd pour that down the drain and buy some from the store. Next time, chill it quickly to below 40F or hold it at elevated temperatures above 150F or so to avoid bacterial growth. Keeping it cold doesn't kill anything, but it keeps it from reproducing. So, if it's clean and you swiftly bring the temp down, the bacteria that do get in it don't have time to put enough poison out to make you sick before they go into suspended animation. Keeping it hot will kill any non-heat resistant bacteria that get into it almost instantly, and any heat resistant bacteria that float into it will go directly into a spore stage where they are dormant and won't reproduce. It's when it sits for extended periods of time between cold and hot (sounds a lot like your science experiment that you conducted) where you're asking for trouble.
As others have said, the bacteria per se aren't the problem. It's the toxins they produce that are. Unfortunately, while the bacteria aren't usually heat stable, the toxins typically are. Cooking won't make tainted broth safe because the temperature at which the toxins are broken down and rendered safe is above the boiling point of water, so you'll just boil off the water and make the poison even more concentrated. Even more fun is that some of the nastiest and most effective toxins are also some of the most heat stable. Even more fun than that is that C. botulinum itself is heat stable. Try to boil it to kill it, and it'll just make spores and survive because that's how it rolls.
Incidentally, this is why canning often takes place in pressure cookers and medical instruments are autoclaved and not just boiled. The additional pressure makes water boil at a high enough temperature to kill C. botulinum and other heat resistant pathogens. The autoclave gets hot enough to actually break down many of the toxins. An open pot of water boiling on a stove just won't get hot enough.
I'd pour that down the drain and buy some from the store. Next time, chill it quickly to below 40F or hold it at elevated temperatures above 150F or so to avoid bacterial growth. Keeping it cold doesn't kill anything, but it keeps it from reproducing. So, if it's clean and you swiftly bring the temp down, the bacteria that do get in it don't have time to put enough poison out to make you sick before they go into suspended animation. Keeping it hot will kill any non-heat resistant bacteria that get into it almost instantly, and any heat resistant bacteria that float into it will go directly into a spore stage where they are dormant and won't reproduce. It's when it sits for extended periods of time between cold and hot (sounds a lot like your science experiment that you conducted) where you're asking for trouble.
This post was edited on 1/5/16 at 10:07 am
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:57 am to TigerstuckinMS
quote:Not worth getting sick over, and the risk is not small.
I'd pour that down the drain and buy some from the store.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:44 am to LSUGUMBO
What about my two quarts of turkey stock, in the fridge since a couple days after Thanksgiving? Can I boil it and then freeze it?
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:53 am to Darla Hood
quote:
What about my two quarts of turkey stock, in the fridge since a couple days after Thanksgivi
No. Way too long for my comfort. I'd give you a week in the fridge, but more than a month? No way.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:00 am to Darla Hood
Darla, toss that stuff. I'd be nervous that it's still even in my fridge that long.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 2:41 pm to Richard Castle
You people and your safe living.
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