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re: So much for trade deals with Canada and Mexico--both balk at US steel protectionism

Posted on 10/28/18 at 4:36 pm to
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 4:36 pm to
Which ones??

Tariffs are going to hurt all Americans. Why do you like them so much?? Are you a union socialist trained to like tariffs?
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 4:41 pm to
That simply is not happening and I proved that last week

Read this if you really believe China is shipping a significant amount of steel to Mexico to be shipped to the USA

At least attempt to be informed.

China is not a significant source of steel to the USA. Trump has put huge tariffs on the American consumers of steel from virtually every foreign country and US companies have raised their prices a bunch.
This post was edited on 10/28/18 at 4:43 pm
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
34882 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 4:43 pm to
quote:

Both will not sign unless something is done about the protectionist steel tariffs Trump is insisting upon


So you are okay with THEM (as in NOT American) protecting their own self interest. I tried to tell you the other day that there was most likely a LOT of Chinese products rolling through Canada and Mexico to take advantage of NAFTA policy (at the expense of the USA). Based on THEIR response, it would seem as though China is pressuring THEM to do something about it. At least to me, this action confirms what I have told (by people in the business no less) about how China has circumvented trade regulations. For my part, I hope Trump tells them to take a hike. WE have leverage imho. I have no desire to change direction. As for Mexico and Canada, frick them. This is karma for scheming with bad actors. The pain will be short-lived and order will be restored soon enough.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 4:48 pm to
Steel makers are not saying that the Chinese are dumping in the US so much--they say they are dumping internationally hurting worldwide prices of steel.

Another fallacy.
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
34882 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

That simply is not happening and I proved that last week



You didn't prove shite. You just simply quoted data that can be (and I will argue HAS BEEN) manipulated through China's alleged circumvention of trade regulations by going through Canada and Mexico. As Mark Twain said, "there are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics". Fake data is FAKE NEWS!
Posted by WildFeather
Member since Oct 2015
28 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 4:50 pm to
Any little spark could cause a major war at any given time. Might be a good idea for the good ole US of frickin A to have the capability to immediately make weapons of war, you know...with steel factories & trained personnel. Or we could continue to stick our heads up our arse & let China have all the good stuff, which one day will lead to us being Chinas bitch.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 4:54 pm to
If trade data generated by the US government is not good enough to prove a point to you then nothing is.

You have your own idea that you cannot factually back up. Any slight of Trump regardless of how small or appropriate is an insult to you. Pathetic

Step back and learn to think critically. You have drank too much of somebody's KoolAid.
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
80324 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:01 pm to
I’d love to sit down at a poker table with you.

You’re the guy that’s holding a royal flush and goes all in...only to fold when the guy holding a pair of 3s bluffs.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:06 pm to
If that is your impression then I too would love to play poker with you.

Folks here are the people in a game of 5 or 6 players betting every flop because they hold an ace even though there is a pair of kings on the table and they do not have one to go with it.
This post was edited on 10/28/18 at 5:11 pm
Posted by WildFeather
Member since Oct 2015
28 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:06 pm to
Amen to that Godfather.
Sometimes you gotta nut up.
Posted by TigerMyth36
River Ridge
Member since Nov 2005
39748 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:07 pm to
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
80324 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:07 pm to
quote:

If that is your impression then I too would love to play poker with you.


I don’t think so. I’m pretty sure my impression is correct. You’d lose your shirt.
Posted by Dead End
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2013
21237 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

Chinese bot


I B wanted Rubio to win and he hates every deal that helps America and hurts China.

So, you might be on to something.
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
34882 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

If trade data generated by the US government is not good enough to prove a point to you then nothing is


As stated before, my family is in the business and lived a number of years in China...mainland China as well as Hong Kong. I'll trust their thoughts on the matter. As for trusting the government's data...just remember that when your boy JBE rolls out some bullshite numbers. As for critical thinking, how is this: your shtick is weak. You seem to believe that simply by starting thread after meaningless thread that you will eventually wear down the board through repetition. You are entitled to your view, and I am entitled to mine. As for Kool Aid...that is a weird "flame" as I didn't vote for Trump. That being said, I like his foreign policy and plan on voting for his re-election bid. I have to say, your endless diatribe about tariffs has certainly been entertaining. Carry on.
Posted by RoyalWe
Prairieville, LA
Member since Mar 2018
3179 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:11 pm to
quote:

If trade data generated by the US government is not good enough to prove a point to you then nothing is.

You have your own idea that you cannot factually back up.
LINK

Here is the first article I found after Googling "How does China circumvent tarifs?". It's well known how China does this.

Also, the tariff "war" is all about who will 'cry uncle' first. If you care to Google "usa vs china who has leverage" (here, I did it for you --> LINK) you will see a plethora of articles that tell you China is running out of American products to target. Our tariffs are hurting China much more than they are hurting us. China's economy is starting to falter and it might be more difficult for them to maintain control over a populace when the economy slows. If we have to subsidize specific industries to keep them functional while we make China feel the pain then I have no issue at all with it. We've been taking it up the poop chute forever with China and other nations. Bottom line is that we are doing this because we should and, more to dismiss your claims, WE CAN.

We are winning this war.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:12 pm to
Why do post such lies in this thread about none of Trump's trade deals being signed?
Posted by hawgfaninc
https://youtu.be/torc9P4-k5A
Member since Nov 2011
46525 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:13 pm to
quote:

Apparently not a lot because saying "500 jobs lost" doesn't mean much when thousands are created for each one of those 500 gone. And Mexico and Canada don't have much of a choice. It'll get done, because the US holds all the cards. It's almost like you people aren't paying attention to the economy. Historically low unemployment. Higher workforce participation. Manufacturing job creation higher than in 60 years. Wages are rising. Stock market booming.

And you link a Canadian news source. The CBC, one of the most biased, left leaning news sources in North America. Shoving your fingers in your ears, ignoring all contrary evidence to your ideas and yelling at the top of your lungs that "ORANGE MAN BAD!" isn't an argument.

Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:18 pm to
As too your first link--it is not applicable as the example did not include MX or CA and the data in the trade.gov link showed hardly any shipments to CA and MX by the Chinese. The commodity of honey is much easier to re-route and I am not denying they will try to do that but they are not as you implied shipping steel to CA and MX to be re-exported to the US.

Your second link has some good points and many make good points. The issue is you and other assume Xi and the communist want to end the trade war. We don't know that yet--logically you think they would but they haven't played all their cards yet. They certainly are not trying to talk to us about it.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
99657 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:18 pm to
quote:


Read this if you really believe China is shipping a significant amount of steel to Mexico to be shipped to the USA

At least attempt to be informed


Conveniently left out Canada
Posted by Shiftyplus1
Regret nothing that made you smile
Member since Oct 2005
13397 posts
Posted on 10/28/18 at 5:22 pm to
You keep saying tariffs tariffs tariffs, as if that is the only thing that affects the economy, and the ONLY thing that should be examined. As if any bad things that happen as a result of tariffs cancel out everything else.

WP - Under Trump, Economic Boom Reaches Blue Collar America


quote:

Blue-collar jobs are growing at their fastest rate in more than 30 years, helping fuel a hiring boom in many small towns and rural areas that are strong supporters of President Trump ahead of November's midterm elections. Jobs in goods-producing industries — mining, construction and manufacturing — grew 3.3 percent in the year preceding July, the best rate since 1984, according to a Washington Post analysis.


quote:

In a sign of revitalization in an area previously hit hard by the decline of coal and steel production, the Appalachian town of Ashland, Ky., recently broke ground on a new aluminum mill. Owned by Braidy Industries, the mill will eventually employ more than 500 people.



Quotes from WSJ

quote:

“The smart set argued that getting economic growth to 3% was virtually impossible. Yet 18 months into Mr. Trump’s tenure, the economy is already nearing that mark, with no recession in sight. It turns out that 3 percent growth seemed impossible to the left only because Mr. Obama’s Keynesian policy prescriptions failed to do the trick,” they wrote. “It’s a little rich that liberals who warned the economy would melt down under Mr. Trump are now insisting that growth was in the cards all along. If the economy and the stock market had crashed, it’s obvious they’d be sanctimoniously denouncing Trumponomics as a tragic failure.”




The Hill - Economists Agree, Trump, Not Obama Get Credit for Economy

quote:

Share to Twitter Wall Street soars to new highs Reuters Autoplay: On | Off Who deserves credit for the booming economy? This is not a petty argument. How voters answer the question could well determine whether Democrats retake the House of Representatives come November. Trump and Obama (and their admirers) are slugging it out, both claiming that it is their policies that have led to the ongoing economic expansion, steady job growth and higher stock prices. Happily for President Trump, the pros agree with him. A recent survey of economists suggest it is President Trump, and not Obama, who should be taking a bow. The Wall Street Journal asked 68 business, financial and academic economists who was responsible for the strengthening of the economy, and most “suggested Mr. Trump’s election deserves at least some credit” for the upturn. A majority said the president had been “somewhat” or “strongly” positive for job creation, gross domestic product growth and the rising stock market. The pros cite the White House’s push for lighter regulation and the recent tax bill as critical to a pro-growth environment; more than 90 percent of the group thought the tax bill would boost GDP expansion over the next two years. A year ago in the same survey, economists awarded President Obama mixed grades. Most saw his policies as positive for financial stability, but neutral-to-negative for GDP growth and negative for long-term growth. By contrast, Trump was seen as neutral to positive for long-term gains. Why would Trump rate higher than Obama with this group? Economists point to the upturn in business confidence that accompanied Trump’s election, and tie that to increasing business investment. Spending on capital goods accelerated sharply over the first three quarters of last year, growing at an annualized rate of 6.2 percent.



CNS - Bureau of Labor and Statistics Quotes

quote:

Manufacturing jobs in the United States increased by 37,000 in July and have now increased by 400,000 since Donald Trump became president, according to data released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. “Manufacturing added 37,000 jobs in July, with most of the gain in the durable goods component,” said the BLS employment report. “Employment rose in transportation equipment (+13,000), machinery (+6,000), and electronic instruments (+2,000).” “Over the past 12 months, manufacturing has added 327,000 jobs,” said the report.



So here is all of this info that points to skyrocketing employment, manufacturing job creation, wage increases, factory re-openings and construction, and you are yelling "tariffs are ruining everything." Any unbiased person can plainly see the nation is much more healthy economically under Trump. But whatever. Pick and choose. Dig through the piles of expanding money to find a bad penny and say the entire fortune is ruined.
This post was edited on 10/28/18 at 5:24 pm
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