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Message
18 States Sue to Challenge Loss of Subsidies
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:15 pm
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:15 pm
So predictable... LINK
9th Circuit will put it on hold. How long before it gets to SCOTUS?
ETA: not EO just non payment of subsidies to insurance cos
9th Circuit will put it on hold. How long before it gets to SCOTUS?
ETA: not EO just non payment of subsidies to insurance cos
This post was edited on 10/13/17 at 10:19 pm
11
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:23 pm to WONTONGO
Well, I mean seriously! How the frick are the insurance regulators supposed to get their cut if the pie disappears? Huh? Huh? Huh?!!!
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:24 pm to WONTONGO
Expect to see insurers themselves filing suits as well.
This is going to be a cluster frick.
Tax payers are on the hook for more money, people in the individual market without subsidies look to have more expensive plans as insurers raise premiums to offset the cost sharing subsidies they will no longer be reimbursed for, and people qualifying for subsidies have to worry about the uncertainty and chaos seeing insurers flee their area. Democrats can now point to this action as Trump taking ownership of healthcare and deliberately attempting to sabotage the market.
Who Trump thinks he is helping is beyond me.
This is going to be a cluster frick.
Tax payers are on the hook for more money, people in the individual market without subsidies look to have more expensive plans as insurers raise premiums to offset the cost sharing subsidies they will no longer be reimbursed for, and people qualifying for subsidies have to worry about the uncertainty and chaos seeing insurers flee their area. Democrats can now point to this action as Trump taking ownership of healthcare and deliberately attempting to sabotage the market.
Who Trump thinks he is helping is beyond me.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:25 pm to WONTONGO
Didn't courts already decide this?
This post was edited on 10/13/17 at 10:26 pm
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:25 pm to bonhoeffer45
Frankly, the sooner this shite show collapses the sooner a fix goes in.
Even the people they wrote this fricking mess knew it would never work, they just thought it would open the door to single payer.
Even the people they wrote this fricking mess knew it would never work, they just thought it would open the door to single payer.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:27 pm to WONTONGO
Suing for money that the Feds have no authority to give out... You can't make this stuff up 
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:28 pm to WONTONGO
Good luck with that.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:28 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
Well, I mean seriously! How the frick are the insurance regulators supposed to get their cut if the pie disappears? Huh? Huh? Huh?!!!
They are getting their cut, and a bigger cut it will be.
As the government is still on the hook for the premium tax credits, so when an insurer, in response to the administration's refusal to reimburse insurers who are administering these cost-sharing subsidies that they are required by law to administer, raise their premiums to offset this move, the government is on the hook for that. And so far those increases exceed the cost of just paying the cost-sharing subsidies. So the CBO has estimated that over the next 8 years we will add an additional 194 billion to the deficit.
The crazy thing in addition to the above, is like with the refusal to pay reinsurance and risk corridor bills, insurers take it to court. In this instance, they will be suing to get their cost sharing subsidies AFTER having already raised their premiums under the assumption of not getting that money. IF they win some of these cases, which they have in the past, they will essentially be double dipping. Getting money from increased premiums and than getting some of the lost money from cost-sharing subsidies they weren't reimbursed for.
This post was edited on 10/13/17 at 10:33 pm
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:29 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Democrats can now point to this action as Trump taking ownership of healthcare and deliberately attempting to sabotage the market.
Only to loons (liberals)
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:32 pm to WONTONGO
I didn't see a list of the states. Do you know which 18 states are suing?
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:32 pm to bonhoeffer45
I disagree.
Trump is putting this on Congress. He is saying "you have not authorized the funding needed to provide the subsidies to insurance companies--basically the profit guarantees to insurance companies--you want to give".
People will see ACA for what it is---a huge subsidy to insurance companies and providers.
Trump is putting this on Congress. He is saying "you have not authorized the funding needed to provide the subsidies to insurance companies--basically the profit guarantees to insurance companies--you want to give".
People will see ACA for what it is---a huge subsidy to insurance companies and providers.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:37 pm to THDAY
quote:
Didn't courts already decide this?
Yes.
Johnathan Turley was the plantiff’s attorney, House Republicans, and they won the case because congress never appropriated funds to subsidize insurance companies. Obama simply took $7 billion from the Treasury and spent it on his pet insurance companies. The DC court ruled it unconstitutional. Obama violated Article 1.
Despite Trump’s EO, he has no authority to issue health insurance subsidies. He would be breaking the law if he issued the subsidies. These suits won’t even have a chance in the liberal 9th. These 18 states are suing for the political optics. They will lose. It’s a VERY simple case.
This post was edited on 10/13/17 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:37 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Tax payers are on the hook for more money, people in the individual market without subsidies look to have more expensive plans as insurers raise premiums to offset the cost sharing subsidies they will no longer be reimbursed for, and people qualifying for subsidies have to worry about the uncertainty and chaos seeing insurers flee their area. Democrats can now point to this action as Trump taking ownership of healthcare and deliberately attempting to sabotage the market.
You truly are ignorant.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:40 pm to WONTONGO
18 states complain Trump refuses to continue to act unconstotutuonally.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:42 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
I disagree.
Trump is putting this on Congress. He is saying "you have not authorized the funding needed to provide the subsidies to insurance companies--basically the profit guarantees to insurance companies--you want to give".
People will see ACA for what it is---a huge subsidy to insurance companies and providers.
Lets clear this up.
The law states this:
quote:
(3) Methods for reducing cost-sharing
(A) In general
An issuer of a qualified health plan making reductions under this subsection shall notify the Secretary of such reductions and the Secretary shall make periodic and timely payments to the issuer equal to the value of the reductions.
(B) Capitated payments
The Secretary may establish a capitated payment system to carry out the payment of cost-sharing reductions under this section. Any such system shall take into account the value of the reductions and make appropriate risk adjustments to such payments.
LINK
The cost-sharing subsidies are administered and paid by insurers, who are after-the-fact reimbursed by the government. What Trump is doing is saying "I will not pay this bill." But since the law still requires insurers to pay and administer these cost sharing subsidies, they will have to continue to do so. Republicans have argued they had to appropriate the funding to pay this bill first, which they refused to do. So they sued the Obama administration for paying the bills. The first ruling sided with the Republicans but has been appealed and is still ongoing.
What Trump's decision does is force insurers to find ways to make up for that non-payment. Their solution has largely been to offset those costs by over-correcting with premium increases. So the net cost to the government is actually greater than if Trump just paid the cost-sharing subsidies.
The subsidies to insurers are not going away, to the contrary, they are now going to get bigger.
What is happening, is if you do not have subsidies(since all of the subsidies increase with the increased costs of premiums and out-of-pocket expenses) you are facing much higher premiums to make up for the loss of the reimbursements for the cost sharing administration. You feel the full brunt of the increases. So this is going to harm the middle income people without subsidies but stuck on the individual market the hardest.
This post was edited on 10/13/17 at 10:46 pm
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:42 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Democrats can now point to this action as Trump taking ownership of healthcare and deliberately attempting to sabotage the market.
The media and Dems will blame Trump about everything regardless of what he does. Heck, Pelosi and Schumer come out against Trumps plans evens before they read them.
This post was edited on 10/13/17 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:42 pm to udtiger
Exactly.
I’m loling because it’s pathetic.
I’m loling because it’s pathetic.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:44 pm to teke184
quote:
Frankly, the sooner this shite show collapses the sooner a fix goes in.
This is the reality of it. All his moves are to put pressure on Congress to do something.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:48 pm to Maytheporkbewithyou
quote:
I didn't see a list of the states. Do you know which 18 states are suing?
No, but it wouldn't be hard to guess.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 10:50 pm to WONTONGO
If these a****** courts issue an order to keep the payments going I sincerely hope Trump ignores it and tells them to go pound sand because the Supreme Court has already spoken.
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