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NSA will be allowed to keep illegally acquired data

Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:36 pm
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:36 pm
This is long but I recommend reading it all, as Marcy is one of the best writers at really getting into the nitty-gritty of the FISC decisions and is often knowledgeable enough to infer the redactions. LINK
quote:

Not long after the announcement, the government released documents explaining why it had dropped this kind of collection, which it calls "about" collection. Those documents amounted to a confession that the NSA failed to follow rules the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court put in place in 2011 to ensure upstream collection complied with the Fourth Amendment.

There was a stink, at the time, accusing the Obama Administration of using Section 702 of FISA—which only permits the government to target foreigners—of using it to spy on Americans for five years. Those accusations were, technically, true (the NSA attributed such spying to technical failures, not legal ones). But the truth is far more troubling. In fact, from 2004 to 2016, the NSA was always engaging in collection the FISC would go on to deem unauthorized. For 12 years, under both the Bush and Obama Administrations, the NSA was collecting information that, if retained, would break the law.

But under the current presiding judge, overseeing the plans of the Trump Administration, NSA will be allowed to keep such data, a change from her three predecessors.


In adopting the solution to the "about" problem pitched by the Trump Administration, FISC presiding judge Rosemary Collyer, the latest judge to deal with such violations, did less than her predecessors to ensure that such violations don't cause ongoing privacy violations. Not only did she stop short of ensuring that FISA remains the "exclusive means" to conduct surveillance, she allowed the government to keep data it got by breaking the rules.

...

For one tool used to do back door searches on Americans targeted by individual FISA warrants who were located overseas, 85% of queries were not compliant, often because they targeted those people for periods when spying wasn't authorized by a FISA warrant, as the FISA Amendments Act requires they be. In addition, over the course of six months of review, the NSA couldn't even find all the places it had stored upstream content that might have been improperly switched.

So at the end of that six month period (this brings us to April 2017), Collyer approved a proposal offered by Trump's appointees she claimed was a fix. Rather than prohibiting back door searches of content known to include entirely domestic communications, the NSA would just stop doing the most problematic kind of upstream collection, the "about" collection that can result in bundled communications including entirely unrelated communications. With that change, Collyer for the first time approved back door searches on upstream collection, without even consulting an amicus, which was arguably required by the USA Freedom Act, a 2015 law that required the court to explain why it didn't use an amicus when considering significant issues.

But that fix clearly doesn't solve the problem of NSA accessing domestic communications with its newly expanded back door searches. "It will still be possible," Collyer admitted, "for the NSA to acquire [a bundled communication] that contains a domestic communication." (It's not clear, at all, from Collyer's opinion whether she understands that single communications may also be entirely domestic.)
This is also why I won't shed a tear if Trump ends up getting nailed because of SIGINT. His people are expanding that power rather than curtailing it. Whining about the IC on Twitter is therefore just a cheap bit of theater for his diehards.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 4:38 pm
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
72724 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:37 pm to
Nice.
Posted by 90proofprofessional
Member since Mar 2004
24445 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:38 pm to
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
74290 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:39 pm to
Let me guess its Trump fault? Who wastes time reading that

Posted by gthog61
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
71001 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:40 pm to
Oh horse shite

You want trump to get nailed on some puddly bullshite anyway
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:41 pm to
Meet new boss, same as old boss but with memes.
Posted by geauxnavybeatbama
Member since Jul 2013
25134 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:42 pm to
It is literally impossible for the president to illegally disclose information to other countries and extend the information legally accessed in past years.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 4:47 pm
Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
36238 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:48 pm to
And Americans will sit idly by and feed their faces with fast food and reality tv and ignore the fact that their Republic and Constitution no longer exist.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423392 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:52 pm to
Posted by AUstar
Member since Dec 2012
17059 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:52 pm to
Who cares? Nothing you do electronically is ever going to be private. It's time to just accept it at this point. NSA is always going to push for looser regulations and the Congress is always going to go along with them.
Posted by MikeyFL
Las Vegas, NV
Member since Sep 2010
9613 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:52 pm to
Even if the court ordered them to delete illegally-acquired information, I highly doubt the NSA would comply. It's not like laws or court orders have stopped them before.
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:57 pm to
Muh privacy. Muh secure communications.
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 5:01 pm to
quote:

For 12 years, under both the Bush and Obama Administrations, the NSA was collecting information that, if retained, would break the law.

But under the current presiding judge, overseeing the plans of the Trump Administration, NSA will be allowed to keep such data, a change from her three predecessors.


what a hack job.

So let me understand....the last 3 presidents have been violating the law and they have been illegally keeping the data.

but NOW, NOW, a judge says they can LEGALLY keep it...and its Trumps fault?



thats some neo-liberal spin.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20923 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 5:02 pm to
Did anyone really believe they simply ditched all data illegally found?

The people I really pity are the ones who actually believe in the justifications of the surveillance state.
Posted by AMS
Member since Apr 2016
6498 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 5:22 pm to
quote:

His people are expanding that power rather than curtailing it.


Trump must have been playing some real futureD intergalactic wormhole chess to have his people in place in 2013.

FISC court memberships
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
72193 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 6:00 pm to
This is one area where I feel Trump will definitely be lead by his nose.

He has no idea what to do in regards to these programs and his advisors appear to be pro-expansion.

Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
124188 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 6:20 pm to
quote:

This is also why I won't shed a tear if Trump ends up getting nailed because of SIGINT. His people are expanding that power
Oh I'd keep my powder dry on that assumption Iosh.

But I agree wholeheartedly with your NSA domestic surveillance sentiments.
Posted by JuiceTerry
Roond the Scheme
Member since Apr 2013
40868 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 6:49 pm to
Not sure if this is the same thing, but I've yet to hear about Trump reversing Obama's EO relaxing the unmasking oversight stuff yet, either. Being Trump's favorite mission of his presidency so far, I can't believe this one has slipped past him
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