re: Let's talk about military spending

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They deployed one brigade that was attached to the 2nd Infantry Division (US Army). Despite the myths that have been created, their participation was no more notable than their Army counterparts.

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Yes, thanks for reminding me about that part. I'm sure it was a fine brigade and probably one of the best infantry units that the USA ever produced.

But I am serious about trying to learn more about USMC infantry assault tactics in 1918. I would like WP or anybody else to confirm or refute my conclusion that they mirrored US Army infantry assault tactics in WW I.

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But I am serious about trying to learn more about USMC infantry assault tactics in 1918. I would like WP or anybody else to confirm or refute my conclusion that they mirrored US Army infantry assault tactics in WW I.

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I'm no military historian but I'm pretty sure the tactics weren't much different than what the army was using. If anything the Marines were just more aggressive in their application of those tactics, much as it is today.

He did what he always does. Came in and laid a steaming WikiPaster on the thread. Then pictures of him in the 1970s. Then some Marine history. And then defended it all because the thread is not any good.

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They deployed one brigade that was attached to the 2nd Infantry Division (US Army). Despite the myths that have been created, their participation was no more notable than their Army counterparts.

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General Lejeune commanded the 2nd Infantry Division for about a year. That was a first.

General Pershing early on directed that no Army units be identified by name. This rebounded on him in the sense that he made no prohibition on the Marines. So the headlines were filled with mentions of the Marine Brigade, while the Army just had to be the Army.

The French commemorated the Marine's participation by renaming Belleau Woods: Bois de la Brigade de Marine.

Maybe they did something similar for the Army. I don't know and you can guess that no Army guy knows either because the Army doesn't teach its own history to its people.

Apparently real quotes:

"Why in hell can't the Army do it if the Marines can. They are the same kind of men; why can't they be like Marines. -- Gen. John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, USA; 12 February 1918

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." -- Gen. John "Black Jack" Pershing

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I'm no military historian but I'm pretty sure the tactics weren't much different than what the army was using.

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This is generally true - at least basic infantry tactics. Essentially, the major powers of WWI started with a modified Napoleonic structure and tactics/operational art. The airplane and tank were in their infancy as weapons. The 5 things that were prevalent in WWI that Napoleon did not employ in any significant way (or were not feasible a hundred years prior) were: interlocking trenches and fortifications, over-the-horizon field artillery, telegraph(or wireless) communication, the machine gun and the railroad for operational and strategic maneuverability.

Other than that - massed formations and charges looked largely like they had going back to Gustavus Adolphus and Frederick the great 150 to 300 years earlier.

It was the massive losses and the relative strength of the defense (which had been demonstrated half a century earlier in the American Civil and Franco-Prussian Wars) which caused all the practitioners to find a way to reintroduce maneuver into the combat equation - a way to get to a decisive point, breakouts and all that - the airplane and tank, in particular, which did not make a difference in WWI and would become all important in the next global struggle of arms.

While WWI was still going on, various things were tried such as rolling barrages and "storm troopers" - to limited success as logistics held you back if you were to achieve some level of penetration and offensive success.

One of the things to keep in mind about WWI is all the mutinies. The French Army mutinied, the Russian Army mutinied, the Germany Army mutinied, the Italian Army mutinied, the Austrian Army mutinied, the Turkish Army mutinied.

Only the Brits, and they were shaken, did not mutiny and the US really wasn't subjected to anything like the Somme or Passchendaele or Verdun or Caporetto.

There's like 10 pages of this thread say how it's possible and why it's desirable.


The other 17 or so are your boot camp pictures

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boot camp pictures

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Uh, he also posts something about subs.