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Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:20 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I don't need to watch a video to know that a middle class family in europe is paying more in taxes than an American middle class.
To argue against that is absolutely asinine.
If you make 1.8 times the national income in Sweden, you are paying a marginal income tax rate of 60%.
Only Norway spends more in healthcare tax dollars per person then America. When you combine our per person private spending, we dwarf them.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:23 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
But it's free! Don't you care about poor people NC_Tigah?
Can't tell if your joking or not. Someone pays for it. The American people. If you were joking disregard that. I also want to make a point for people who agree with that statement. Why should I pay for someone else's healthcare through taxes? I already hate that my tax payer dollars are still paying for every retired politician.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:26 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Case in point: Bernie Sanders' ridiculously idealistic, unrealistic medicare for all scheme which even liberal health experts said would cost more than twice what his campaign said it would.
To me it is a fine line between berating someone and encouraging them. Though I agree.
I think anyone that has developed a more nuanced position on a complex political policy started somewhere with a simpler, more broad idealism, then developed it over time.
And having voices that argue the broad idealism questions is important in its own right. It just becomes a bit counter-productive when they begin selling that ideal as realistically achievable policy and set their supporters up with false promises and unrealistic expectations.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:26 pm to oklahogjr
quote:Does the government buy me as many guns as I want?
We have the right to bear arms.
quote:Does the government buy me as many printing presses, and netowrk servers as I want?
We have the right to a free Press.
quote:They do pay for this (it's explicit in the Constitution, for a good reason--it's a check on the state's power)--but ask anyone if they'd pefer a public defender and you'll not find many takers.
We have the right to an attorney.
quote:The state pays for this, because it's the state's burden. See above.
We have a right to trial by jury
quote:It's kinda sad you have to ask.
All these rights require other people's work somewhere to be enjoyed how is Healthcare different?
This post was edited on 3/7/17 at 7:27 pm
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:27 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Only Norway spends more in healthcare tax dollars per person then America. When you combine our per person private spending, we dwarf them.
I suppose you're new enough not to know better.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:29 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Tired strawman is tired. Acute PTs are the small minority of ED visits.
I didn't say otherwise. Enlighten me as to how you would write the law to give people the emergent treatment they need while filtering out the people who abuse the system? I'm all ears.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:29 pm to LSU12223
quote:JOKING (of course)
Can't tell if your joking or not.
quote:That's just it. People say "the sick shouldn't have to pay for their healthcare". Ok. Then... why should the healthy have to pay for it? What did they do wrong?
Why should I pay for someone else's healthcare through taxes?
This post was edited on 3/7/17 at 7:30 pm
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:29 pm to TheXman
Yes, but a following "right" to make me pay for it through taxation is a no.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:30 pm to bonhoeffer45
I have a few problems with that chart.
1) Americans many times CHOOSE to spend insane amounts on end of life care, an option not always available in European nations, perhaps for good reason I may add.
2) It assumes that a dollar in health care tax dollars would supply the same amount of care in those countries as in america. What if there is some other factor in America that would require MORE healthcare dollars than what a swede pays?
Thorpe, a health economist not against single payer, has estimated:
LINK
Kenneth Thopre works at emory university.
1) Americans many times CHOOSE to spend insane amounts on end of life care, an option not always available in European nations, perhaps for good reason I may add.
2) It assumes that a dollar in health care tax dollars would supply the same amount of care in those countries as in america. What if there is some other factor in America that would require MORE healthcare dollars than what a swede pays?
Thorpe, a health economist not against single payer, has estimated:
quote:
Thorpe isn't some right-wing critic skeptical of all single-payer proposals. Indeed, in 2006 he laid out a single-payer proposal for Vermont after being hired by the legislature, and was retained by progressive Vermont lawmakers again in 2014 as the state seriously considered single-payer, authoring a memo laying out alternative ways to expand coverage. A 2005 report he wrote estimated that a single-payer system would save $1.1 trillion in health spending from 2006 to 2015.
But he nonetheless concludes that single-payer at a national level would be significantly more expensive than the Sanders campaign believes, and would require workers to pay an additional 20 percent of their compensation in taxes. He also argues it would leave 71 percent of households with private insurance worse off once you take both tax increases and reduced health care expenditures into account.
quote:
Thorpe is less rosy. He assumes the US can reduce the cost of prescription drugs by a fifth, that it can pay providers much less than private insurers currently do, that it can significantly slow down how fast health care spending grows, and that it can gain some substantial savings from simpler administration. But that still isn't enough to make the plan affordable without a massive tax increase.
LINK
Kenneth Thopre works at emory university.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:32 pm to Taxing Authority
It's like gambling sometimes you get a really shitty hand and that happens
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:33 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Healthcare is no different than any other product or service. If you use more--you should pay more. I will never understand why people consider that unfair.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:34 pm to Taxing Authority
Because people have no sense of money. And how economics works
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:34 pm to TheXman
If food and shelter aren't, healthcare most certainly isn't.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:35 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Healthcare is no different than any other product or service.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:35 pm to LSU12223
quote:
So with the Obamacare people were being taxed for not having Obamacare. I'm sorry but I don't see how the government should tell me what policy or what health insurance I have. That being said healthcare is a service, yes along with having an attorney.
First off I've never been a big supporter of obamacare. I tolerate it because we're moving toward a single payer system and it was better than nothing overall.
quote:
But that attorney protects you from the law, punishment if there is enough evidence to overturn whatever you are being prosecuted for. Trial by jury same thing protected people from being wrongfully prosecuted. Without those two rights the govt would be able to put you in jail and you couldn't fight it.
All I'm saying is that precedent for rights to someone else's labor definitely exist. The government simply compensates that person for their work (pay isn't great I hear, but you are paid for your efforts).
quote:
Also right to bear arms is not a service tbh it's actually a product. So you wouldn't be using other people's labor in a sense only for purchase of gun after that it's all on you. Free press is free speech. Without that you couldn't call presidents assholes.
Yeah I can see that. I was thinking press more in the sense of the media but it's also some dude with a copy machine in his basement handing out flyers on the street corner(Alex Jones before the internet).
And the right to bear arms I was thinking someone has to make the gun but in a sense that could also just be yourself.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:36 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
1) Americans many times CHOOSE to spend insane amounts on end of life care, an option not always available in European nations
It's almost as if we tried to fix this in 2009 but you ignorant fricks started lies about death panels.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:38 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
It is expensive, horribly inefficient, and in contrast to uninformed opinions here, such care and rapid access to care is not carried out abroad.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:39 pm to oklahogjr
you also have to think about it this way. When the govt appoints you an attorney typically speaking he is a real shitty lawyer
Posted on 3/7/17 at 7:40 pm to BamaAtl
quote:If people CHOOSE to spend insane amounts to keep granny alive 2 months longer for a birth or christmas, that should be someone's right to do so, but it will obviously skew the national averages big time.
It's almost as if we tried to fix this in 2009 but you ignorant fricks started lies about death panels.
BTW, it's not just republicans that are opposed to doing away with costly terminal care. It's a cultural issue that was politically toxic.
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