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Started By
Message
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Posted on 11/27/16 at 9:07 am
Posted on 11/27/16 at 9:07 am
(no message)
This post was edited on 7/26/21 at 4:06 pm
13
Posted on 11/27/16 at 9:09 am to Lacour
Sunday Mornings with Lacour is back? Nice.
They would've lost and Pearl Harbor would not have happened.
They would've lost and Pearl Harbor would not have happened.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 9:23 am to Lacour
Harry Turtledove has explored this.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 9:24 am to Lacour
You came to right place.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 9:25 am to Lacour
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.
This post was edited on 11/27/16 at 9:27 am
Posted on 11/27/16 at 9:27 am to Lacour
Only if it led to the Nazis developing the bomb first (unlikely) or caused Hilter not to invade Russia (unlikely).
So no.
So no.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 9:28 am to Lacour
During the First World War the Union ally with Germany and Mexico, while the Confederacy allies with the Entente. Germany wins first World War, and Union destroys Confederacy. Second World War occurs as fascism emerges in Britain and France. Germany and United States unite to ensure the rise of these countries does not occur.
United States conquers Canada.
Germany is also able to put down rise of Bolshevism in Russia during the 1920s.
United States conquers Canada.
Germany is also able to put down rise of Bolshevism in Russia during the 1920s.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 9:42 am to Lacour
It will be whatever the wet dream is of our resident southern rednecks
Posted on 11/27/16 at 10:28 am to Lacour
If the South woulda won, we'd a had it made
Posted on 11/27/16 at 11:27 am to Lacour
I'm actually reading a book series that deals with this exact hypothetical.
Southern Victory Series by Harry turtledove. Silly name but damn good alt history writer.
Southern Victory Series by Harry turtledove. Silly name but damn good alt history writer.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 11:37 am to Lacour
Many different scenarios could have occurred. Infinite scenarios actually. We will never know.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 11:52 am to Lacour
quote:
The south gets to Gettysburg first, gets the high ground, wins.
Vicksburg fell the same week as the battle of Gettysburg. Game over.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 12:11 pm to Lacour
I don't see how they are mutually exclusive. I think the us would've eventually reunited. Lincoln wanted to preserve the union and would've acquiesced to the Souths demands.
Slavery was on the way out as machines were about to replace manual labor making them economically infeasible. Sherman never marches through the south and reconstruction as a "punishment" never happens, likely lessening the animosity between north and south. Also very likely the poor economics of the south are much better or at least evenly distributed.
The one question is rights of slaves. From an economical standpoint once machines replaced manual labor there's no incentive to keep slaves. They would have eventually had to have been freed. I wonder how much better race relations would be had the south been able to come to grips with the realities of slavery amicably instead of having it forced upon them. It's not like the north received them with open arms despite what many would have you believe.
Slavery was on the way out as machines were about to replace manual labor making them economically infeasible. Sherman never marches through the south and reconstruction as a "punishment" never happens, likely lessening the animosity between north and south. Also very likely the poor economics of the south are much better or at least evenly distributed.
The one question is rights of slaves. From an economical standpoint once machines replaced manual labor there's no incentive to keep slaves. They would have eventually had to have been freed. I wonder how much better race relations would be had the south been able to come to grips with the realities of slavery amicably instead of having it forced upon them. It's not like the north received them with open arms despite what many would have you believe.
Posted on 11/27/16 at 6:44 pm to Lacour
I don't know how much would be different in Europe. Harry Turtledove covered this in a series of books I enjoyed.
The CSA expanded west and took some Mexican states while the USA expanded north. Because of that England sided with the CSA while the USA sided with the newly created Germany.
World War one in his books was a war started by the USA with the CSA. In which the north finally won. after losing two previous wars to the CSA. The restrictions imposed on the CSA led the the rise of Fascism in the south. World War 2 was again a mostly North American war, with the CSA and USA nuking each other and the CSA eventually losing.
A small event can change history greatly. Like if Archduke Ferdinand had never gone to Sarajevo then WW1 would have never started so there never would have even been a rise of Fascism in Germany.
The Soviets would never have risen to power if WW1 didn't happen.
A change in travel plans alone could have changed the entire course of the last century.
So its hard to tell what effect the USA and CSA both existing would have caused.
Turtledove's entire premise to the Southern victory was the north not gaining the intelligence found by Lee's marching orders being stolen.
The south in his books ended slavery the way Brazil did.
But blacks replaced Jews in WW2 in those books.
Interesting read.
Before and after WW1
The World in 1941
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The CSA expanded west and took some Mexican states while the USA expanded north. Because of that England sided with the CSA while the USA sided with the newly created Germany.
World War one in his books was a war started by the USA with the CSA. In which the north finally won. after losing two previous wars to the CSA. The restrictions imposed on the CSA led the the rise of Fascism in the south. World War 2 was again a mostly North American war, with the CSA and USA nuking each other and the CSA eventually losing.
A small event can change history greatly. Like if Archduke Ferdinand had never gone to Sarajevo then WW1 would have never started so there never would have even been a rise of Fascism in Germany.
The Soviets would never have risen to power if WW1 didn't happen.
A change in travel plans alone could have changed the entire course of the last century.
So its hard to tell what effect the USA and CSA both existing would have caused.
Turtledove's entire premise to the Southern victory was the north not gaining the intelligence found by Lee's marching orders being stolen.
The south in his books ended slavery the way Brazil did.
But blacks replaced Jews in WW2 in those books.
Interesting read.
Before and after WW1
The World in 1941
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